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meet Obama's white house counsel

Amazing...what a piece of $hit....
 
JNickel101 said:
Amazing...what a piece of $hit....
Click to expand...

Do you know who defended the British Soldiers that killed our fellow countrymen and patriots in the Boston Massacre?

This guy is a lawyer, he defends bad people, that's OK it's his job, we as a country still, or I thought we did, believe in fair trails and representation.













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John Adams, 2nd President of the United States
 
Oh here we go, lets do some more comparing of 1700s to current times. Makes about as much sense as comparing Colonial "rebels" to Muslim terrorists....

...but, FWIW, I didn't vote for Mr Adams, so...
 
JNickel101 said:
Oh here we go, lets do some more comparing of 1700s to current times. Makes about as much sense as comparing Colonial "rebels" to Muslim terrorists....

...but, FWIW, I didn't vote for Mr Adams, so...
Click to expand...

Missed the entire point.....:wave:
 
Nope, I didn't...

I understand what you mean, its their "job"

But

They also have a CHOICE whether or not to take that job.....no one FORCED him to defend that POS. Saying "oh its my job" is a cop-out.

Along those lines....

What would you say if, in their defense, those prosecuted in the Nuremberg Trials had claimed "oh I was just doing my job..."

Just because it's your job doesn't mean it is RIGHT.
 
JNickel101 said:
Nope, I didn't...

I understand what you mean, its their "job"

But

They also have a CHOICE whether or not to take that job.....no one FORCED him to defend that POS. Saying "oh its my job" is a cop-out.

Along those lines....

What would you say if, in their defense, those prosecuted in the Nuremberg Trials had claimed "oh I was just doing my job..."

Just because it's your job doesn't mean it is RIGHT.
Click to expand...

Erm - as I recall (from history texts...) a lot of the higher-higher Nuremburg defendants did say they were "just doing their jobs" - it's become known as the "Nuremburg Defense," and it is not a "positive defense."

That's why the clause in the Oath of Enlistment became "... obey all lawful orders ..." - if an order is known (or strongly suspected) of flying in the face of international law, you have the ability - if not the duty - to not carry it out. This can be very much a grey area, but it is there.
 
No you missed the point...in our great country, a system of representative government we are attempting to export to the world, there is legal representation available to even the scummiest of the bags. To make it work someone needs to be their representative (lawyer) in court. Using your Nuremberg analogy, don't you think they were provided with lawyers?

This guy will be on the President's staff giving opinions on legalities and law, not carrying the luanch codes.
 
You are afforded the right to be represented by a lawyer - that is what an APPOINTED lawyer is for.

Not one who voluntarily takes your case in an attempt to clear you when you are obviously guilty.

I think we should just agree to disagree. I will never advocate or accept the fact that lawyers who WILLINGLY defend blatently obvious criminals are good people.
 
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5-90 said:
Erm - as I recall (from history texts...) a lot of the higher-higher Nuremburg defendants did say they were "just doing their jobs" - it's become known as the "Nuremburg Defense," and it is not a "positive defense."

That's why the clause in the Oath of Enlistment became "... obey all lawful orders ..." - if an order is known (or strongly suspected) of flying in the face of international law, you have the ability - if not the duty - to not carry it out. This can be very much a grey area, but it is there.
Click to expand...

I should have clarified....

Using a defense such as "I was just doing my job" does not alleviate you from guilt. That is what I was referring to. Just because you say "I was just doing my job", should the jury then say "oooooh, well, ok then, you're completely innocent Jimmy"...???

("Jimmy" is just a generic name I chose and is in no way insinuating that the name Jimmy is criminal in any way)
 
Doesn't make it any better :D
 
JNickel101 said:
Nope, I didn't...

I understand what you mean, its their "job"

But

They also have a CHOICE whether or not to take that job.....no one FORCED him to defend that POS. Saying "oh its my job" is a cop-out.

Along those lines....

What would you say if, in their defense, those prosecuted in the Nuremberg Trials had claimed "oh I was just doing my job..."

Just because it's your job doesn't mean it is RIGHT.
Click to expand...

They did, I just finished up my senior thesis in history on the Nuremberg Trials. I did the case of Alfred Jodl. It was also in the London Charter that they were not to use such a defense.

5-90 said:
Erm - as I recall (from history texts...) a lot of the higher-higher Nuremburg defendants did say they were "just doing their jobs" - it's become known as the "Nuremburg Defense," and it is not a "positive defense."

That's why the clause in the Oath of Enlistment became "... obey all lawful orders ..." - if an order is known (or strongly suspected) of flying in the face of international law, you have the ability - if not the duty - to not carry it out. This can be very much a grey area, but it is there.
Click to expand...

Correct! Even in the German soldier's pocket book, there is a section that says that one has the right to disobey unlawful orders.
 
....someone else still missing my point....

:doh: nevermind....I thought my next to last post clarified what I was trying to say. I guess not :dunno:

EDIT: and maybe it's just late, but your post above makes zero sense....you managed to contradict yourself twice.

EDIT2: AND, I just reread this thread...our Oath of Enlistment says nothing about "lawful":

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
 
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What's Ron White's joke regarding murder and the death penalty......."....if more than 5 people saw you commit the crime, you don't go to jail buddy, you go straight to the front of the line..."

and wow, is that ever taking a quote out of context :D nice work....
 
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