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ALRIGHT!! Bush commutes border guard sentences!

I

IndyXJ

Member #1314
Location
W.O.P.R. command
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D95QC5OO0&show_article=1


WASHINGTON (AP) - In his final acts of clemency, President George W. Bush on Monday commuted the prison sentences of two former U.S. Border Patrol agents whose convictions for shooting a Mexican drug dealer ignited fierce debate about illegal immigration.
Bush's decision to commute the sentences of Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean, who tried to cover up the shooting, was welcomed by both Republican and Democratic members of Congress. They had long argued that the agents were merely doing their jobs, defending the American border against criminals. They also maintained that the more than 10-year prison sentences the pair was given were too harsh.

Rancor over their convictions, sentencing and firings has simmered ever since the shooting occurred in 2005.

Ramos and Compean became a rallying point among conservatives and on talk shows where their supporters called them heroes. Nearly the entire bipartisan congressional delegation from Texas and other lawmakers from both sides of the political aisle pleaded with Bush to grant them clemency.

...more in link above....
 
XJEEPER said:
THAT ROCKS!!
Click to expand...

Really?

Commuting the sentence of the border patrol agents found guilty of obstruction of justice doesn't seem like a value of someone who believes in Freedom. Am I happy they shot at a fleeing felon, Yes. Am I happy they were protecting the border, Yes. Obstructing justice, Nope sorry can't be happy about that, goes against their job up holding laws. President Bush also commuted the sentence of 'Scooter' Libby whose actions in "outting" the CIA operative potentially has National Security level implications. It was good to read he did not pardon the housing guy whose father made a large contribution to the GOP.
 
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Boatwrench said:
Really?

Commuting the sentence of the border patrol agents found guilty of obstruction of justice doesn't seem like a value of someone who believes in Freedom. Am I happy they shot at a fleeing felon, Yes. Am I happy they were protecting the border, Yes. Obstructing justice, Nope sorry can't be happy about that, goes against their job up holding laws. President Bush also commuted the sentence of 'Scooter' Libby whose actions in "outting" the CIA operative potentially has National Security level implications. It was good to read he did not pardon the housing guy whose father made a large contribution to the GOP.
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Would a pardon/commutation applying simply to the shooting have been more in line with what you are thinking?

I can see sending them up for obstruction and covering-up myself, the idea of a cop is to promote justice, not obstruct it.

But, if the shoot was elsewise justified, then why were they sent to prison for it? Do you know anything about that that I don't? If you do, I'd love to hear it (I'm sure the reason was somewhat political, but I'd love to hear information from other sources.)

Just wondering - information can be developed from many sources, and I'm sure you have sources that I do not.
 
Boatwrench said:
Really?

Commuting the sentence of the border patrol agents found guilty of obstruction of justice doesn't seem like a value of someone who believes in Freedom. Am I happy they shot at a fleeing felon, Yes. Am I happy they were protecting the border, Yes. Obstructing justice, Nope sorry can't be happy about that, goes against their job up holding laws. President Bush also commuted the sentence of 'Scooter' Libby whose actions in "outting" the CIA operative potentially has National Security level implications. It was good to read he did not pardon the housing guy whose father made a large contribution to the GOP.
Click to expand...

12 years for obstruction? Really?
 
5-90 said:
Would a pardon/commutation applying simply to the shooting have been more in line with what you are thinking?

I can see sending them up for obstruction and covering-up myself, the idea of a cop is to promote justice, not obstruct it.
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Jon: Exactly what I was thinking. I don't have any more info than what has been written in the articles. My job only has interaction with the San Diego field offices on the southern border.

Ecksjay: 12 years was from several charges, not just obstruction of justice for the evidence tampering & cover-up. Not sure how the 12 years got broken down over each charge.

Ehall: The following is cut-n-pasted from the article linked above
"In an earlier high-profile official act of forgiveness, Bush saved Vice President Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, from serving prison time in the case of the 2003 leak of CIA operative Valerie Plame's identity. Libby was convicted of perjury and obstructing justice. Bush could still grant him a full pardon, although Libby has not applied for one"
 
Boatwrench said:
Jon: Exactly what I was thinking. I don't have any more info than what has been written in the articles. My job only has interaction with the San Diego field offices on the southern border.
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Thought so - and fair enough.

It does beg the question - is a "partial commutation" possible? I guess it would be somewhat akin to the "line-item" veto (that should get used a good deal more, I think...)
 
Boatwrench said:
Ehall: The following is cut-n-pasted from the article linked above
"In an earlier high-profile official act of forgiveness, Bush saved Vice President Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, from serving prison time in the case of the 2003 leak of CIA operative Valerie Plame's identity. Libby was convicted of perjury and obstructing justice. Bush could still grant him a full pardon, although Libby has not applied for one"
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that's like saying Bill Clinton was impeached for whitewater
 
Boatwrench said:
Really?

Commuting the sentence of the border patrol agents found guilty of obstruction of justice doesn't seem like a value of someone who believes in Freedom. Am I happy they shot at a fleeing felon, Yes. Am I happy they were protecting the border, Yes. Obstructing justice, Nope sorry can't be happy about that, goes against their job up holding laws. President Bush also commuted the sentence of 'Scooter' Libby whose actions in "outting" the CIA operative potentially has National Security level implications. It was good to read he did not pardon the housing guy whose father made a large contribution to the GOP.
Click to expand...

Catching up....you really want to use this as your arguement?

Since you're so open-minded, here's some light reading for you to take in on the subject. Pretty sure that none of this hit CBS, NBC or ABC airtime.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54243

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54226

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53873

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54027

http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54005


http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/txw/press_releases/Compean-Ramos/aldrete_arrest.pdf

Ironic that obstruction of justice is your arguement for the Agents lengthy sentences.
 
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In my opinion Bush screwed them, he should have pardoned them outright and had their records expunged.
 
IndyXJ said:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D95QC5OO0&show_article=1


WASHINGTON (AP) - In his final acts of clemency, President George W. Bush on Monday commuted the prison sentences of two former U.S. Border Patrol agents whose convictions for shooting a Mexican drug dealer ignited fierce debate about illegal immigration.
Bush's decision to commute the sentences of Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean, who tried to cover up the shooting, was welcomed by both Republican and Democratic members of Congress. They had long argued that the agents were merely doing their jobs, defending the American border against criminals. They also maintained that the more than 10-year prison sentences the pair was given were too harsh.

Rancor over their convictions, sentencing and firings has simmered ever since the shooting occurred in 2005.

Ramos and Compean became a rallying point among conservatives and on talk shows where their supporters called them heroes. Nearly the entire bipartisan congressional delegation from Texas and other lawmakers from both sides of the political aisle pleaded with Bush to grant them clemency.

...more in link above....
Click to expand...

Excellent! I'm glad you posted this, because I missed it.
 
RichP said:
In my opinion Bush screwed them, he should have pardoned them outright and had their records expunged.
Click to expand...

I would have liked it if he had done that as well, but at least he didn't just forget about them all together.
 
RichP said:
In my opinion Bush screwed them, he should have pardoned them outright and had their records expunged.
Click to expand...

I disagree.

They did wrong when they tried to cover up that the shooting happened, whether that was ten years worth of wrong I do not know enough to say.

If they had done things properly I'd be right up with you saying they did no wrong and should face no punishment.
 
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