raising upper and lower contol arm mounts?

I would like to raise both my upper and lower control arm mounts to help reduce the angel of my control arms. Here in the future i will be at 4.5 inches of lift, and want to inprove the angles of the arms. I figure I can raise the lowers between 1.5 to 2 inches by welding on new mounts even with the center of the axel tube. For the uppers I was planning on raising both of the mounts 1.5 to 2 inches by cutting the passenger side mount and welding on a new taller one, and cutting the old upper mount on the driver side off and either putting on a truss to weld the mount to or, leaving the stock mount and making a bracket to raise the mount that will bolt to the existing uca mount.

How does this idea sound, is it crazy or stupid or will it be worth while to improve both my ride and off road performance. I have plugged the numbers of this setup into a 4 link calculator, and they seem to work, i end up with about an 86% anti squat. does this all sound right or am I missing something.

I currently am planning on either building new contol arms or buying a set. My current LCA mounts are very bent, and the bushings in the upper mounts are original from 1998.

Thanks Micah.

In short, no. Your LCA's NEED to be at the bottom of your axle for proper caster control IMO.

It would work,but why?Get some DB's or LA's and it will be way easier!

I want to do this to gain good clearence under the jeep, and to retain good control arm angles. Drop brackets and Long arms reduce ground clearence, unles they are bent to gain clearence like treks(tnt) or RK they hang down to low off the frame. I remember reading both goatman and XJ rangers build threadswhen they did thre links, and they both ran raised lower control arm mounts, and used mounts that were lust slightly lower than stock on the frame end. if it works for a 3link why not a 4 link, just raised on the axel end. Drop brackets do the same thing on the frame end but reduce clearence to gain better angels for the control arms.

there are a few people out there who have raised their control arm mounts on the axle side. As previously mentioned ranger and goatman come to mind, but in know there are others. As far as the mounts having to be lower than the axle tube for castor control thats a new one to me. It's pretty popular on 44 and 60 swaps, and i see no reason why it wouldn't work on your 30. As far as raising the mounts i think for the diff side i would probably steer toward a truss setup, seems more sturdy to me (but i know nothing). when you raise the lower contol arm mounts i think it would necessitate shorter control arms. if you picture the mounting hole on the stock mounts it looks as though the hole is slightly aft of the center line of the axle, when you push the mounts up and flush with the axle tube, you're going to need to push the control arm mounting hole back too. if this makes any sense great, if not, sorry for wasting 30 seconds of your life.


just my worthless two cents

mike

Yes that is along the lines of what I was thinking and you are following my logic. I have considered that the arms may need to be shorter, and have planed them to be about 15.25, or about .5 shorter thsn stock to compensate for the mount move. I do think the truss would be a better mounting plan for the upper mounts, but I hate to pay 170 for the TNT truss when i could prob fab my own of some sort.

I like this idea for moving the mount because it fit what I want for my front suspension. At 4.5 inches of lift, I will essentially only have 2 inches worth of lift difference in my control arm angles, I will keep my current clearence at the frame end, and gain clearence under the diff. I am planing on keeping my 30 and only running 33 inch tires. this is the biggest i will ever need. As i described in my OP I need new LCA mounts, and am planning on beefing up the axle in general.

Keep the ideas and oppinions coming. Thanks..

my lca mounts are flush with the axle tube.

more ground clearance, and no caster control issues

Thanks for the responce, I am definately going to do this when all may parts come in, I have been searching for pictures for the last hour of axle swaps and control arm mounts, and found that EJtankerguy has this exact same setup on his swaped D44, I tappears he moved the lower mounts to the center of the axle tube, and raised the uppers a few inches. he is on 5.5 inches of lift and rusty't adjustable uppers and lowers. It looks like it will work, and others are wheeling this setup hard. thanks. Micah

doesnt this have to do with verticle seperation of the axle side lower control arm mount, and upper control arm mount?
ie, if you raise the lower, you must also raise the upper?

Goatman's is mid-arm and IIRC Opie's is an extended Ford radius arm!

I am raising both the upper and lower arms on the axel end to maintain proper separation. xjtankerguy PMed me about his axle setup, and he said it all works well and he has good angles.

...micah

I intend doing the exact same thing on my front axle I'm building. As for the LCA being shorter than stock - I've taken measurements on the LCA mounting on a stock D30 and if you move the mounting up vertically (the bolt holes) there'll still be enough clearance between the axle tube and the control arm end, so the only reason why it should be shorter is because effectively your control arms will sit at a reduced angle as if it had "less lift". This needn't be shorter that stock though...if the mounting only moves up and not back.

My only worry with this would be whether one will have enough clearance for the raised upper control arm mounts not to touch other parts during extreme flexing. My gearbox cooler lines got pinched with the stock setup, although I suspect this happened when jumping in the dunes rather than flexing at low speed.

Does anyone have pics of their raised mount setups?

I had been contemplating this but I was concerned with UCA to say engine oil pan clearance at extreme stuff(or in gorman's case) a hard landing off a dune. If you are running Adjustable arms both upper and lower you should be able to correct whatever difference in length there may be. I can't really see there ever being a caster problem unless you ran in high speed baja, or jeepspeed type stuff.

Good Luck and take some pictures of the process as you go.

I have thought of the upper mounts contacting either the oil pan or tranny lines. considering in stock form like many of you said the mounts can hit these lines or the oil pan i have been running extra bumpstops to stop this.. So i will just be running the appropriate bumpstop to keep this from happening. To see pictues of a similar setup look at XJtankerguy's build thread in his sig, it features raised mounts both upper and lower, and he is running short arms at 5.5 lift. Thanks Micah

goatman raised his control arm on the axle end not on the frame end. he only did that because his axle end lca brackets were raised. just do a mid arm ! leave lower lca's axle end brackets where they are, abandon passenger side axle bracket, build a bracket like rock krawlers right behind stock lca brackets and drop it a 1" or 1 1/2 end up with about a 20" arm.drop upper drivers side about 4inches. and your done. wont have a bracket hangin down at the crossmember. it will be further up near wheel. will flex like a long arm, ride like one, and you won't be hacking your floor up ! little less in matierals and way less work! basically a mid arm rock krawler type 3 link. and your lca frame side bracket will only be 1 to 1 1/2 inches lower than stock.

forgot to mention you will want at least a 18" upper arm minimum.

I have thought of doing something like goatmans, but leaving the frame side LCA in ist current place, raising the axle LCA mount, and then building a new mount for the frame and axle end of the passenger side to create a mid arm setup.
This is still in my mind, as I have not purchesed all of the parts yet. As of right now I have material to build the upper and lower arms, and I have material to make new mounts, but i think I might purches pre fabbed mounts from balistic fab. I have yet to decide on the joints i will use. I like the balistic joints from balistic fab, for the price, but they only come in the large size, so i may have to make my new setup work with all large joints, or use currie johnny joints.

So I have some time to make some decisions, but I would like to get this done by dec, during my week off.

How does this above idea sound, would it be wise to reuse the stock LCA frame mounts, or should I build new lower frame mounts to gain longer arms. I have frame stifners, so i have a solid mounting surface.
Thanks Micah...

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