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Resin+rubber mulch?

Stallacrew

Stallacrew

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Cullman, Alabama
So I have very limited interaction with fiberglass resin, but from what I can tell, it is some hard core stuff. I was thinking about coating the outside of my jeep in a really thin layer of resin just to see how it worked out......then I got the idea of mixing resin with that rubber mulch stuff you find in playgrounds to make a harder version of Rhinolining for your inside flooring in the Jeep.

I think the resin would be more like lexan which is tough and doesnt break, and not so much brittle. (Maybe I was just hoping really hard). I have had a few friends make beer pong tables with bottle caps and resin for a nice clear coating that is shiny and has a sweet beer bottle cap design underneath.

Anyone in the fiberglass field know how resin without the glass mixed in reacts to stress? shatter? bend? break? what?

I figured if you could get some really finely ground rubber bits like the rubber mulch, for somewhere near $.25/lb and mixed in a gallon or two resin at $40-$50 a gallon. This would make an absolutely water tight floor
that would keep rust from happening on the inside, and would be very washable, and grippy like bedliner. Repairs would be super easy and it would last longer than the jeep. All around cost of $60-$100 depending on how much you needed.



I could just be talking outta my ass, but has anyone tried it or anything like it or have resin working experience.



Thanks guys, this might be my next experiment.

--Alex


PS I think sound deadening properties out be great with a good 1/8 to 1/4 inch coating.
 
i dabble in composites....
resin by itself is weak... it needs the cloth for strength.
for example, leave catylized resin sit in the cup, once it hardens, it'll pop right out of the cup you mixed it in, a nice tranparent resin puck... you can snap it like a stale cookie though.

The table top stuff your talking about is a product designed just for that.... its a 2part epoxy designed to be clear and bubble free, thats it.

i dont really see what your talking about looking any good... fiberglass is a nasty bitch, if you dont like how it comes out, your out of luck, it aint coming off easy, it'll take paint w/ it. its also not a paint, so its not designed to prevent rust.


anyone with interests in fiberglass/carbon fiber should check out youtube for 'fiberglass howto', there are a ton of really cool videos, a lot of them quite good, not school house stuff, they have good music and well done time lapse stuff....

it also starts consistancy quite liquid, so you will have streaks unless you have some natural talent.
 
oh, and use a proper respirator whenever cutting glass, or even touching mat.
and OBVIOUSLY when mixing/applying resin... do it outdoors if possible. it stinks, especially polyester
 
"Fibreglas" isn't the resin - it refers to the matting used (glass fibres) and the resultant composite (glass fibre matting + resin, typically a two-part polyester.)

The resin itself is fairly tough, but not invulnerable. You can alter the mechanical characteristics by playing around with the mix (reduce the hardener, it gets a little tougher - but takes longer to set. Composites are all about compromise...) and, of course, there are other resins that could be used.

A "composite" of whatever sort (glass fibre and resin, carbon fibre and resin, aramid fibre and resin, cement and mild steel rods, ...) is composed of a minimum of two elements - a "strength element", or the fibrous component (glass/carbon/aramid fibres, steel rods, ...) and a "binder" that positively locates and retains the strength element (resinoid binder, cement, ...) The principal strength of the composite element comes from the fibrous element, which is then augmented by the binder.

If you look at most "tabletop" or "hobby" fibreglas kits, you'll note that the fibres run through the mat in random directions - again, a compromise. If you are going to do a dedicated layup for a part where structural concerns are key, you're probably going to use an "oriented" mat (anywhere between a 4-to-1 and a 15-to-1 weave, with the "1" member being to locate the other longwise fibres) and plan your layup carefully.

xcm - you probably have some idea what I'm talking about here, since you "dabble." I don't know how deeply you dabble - I've done a bit more design work than layups, tho. If/when I need to get fibreglas, I usually end up getting it from aero supply houses, since I can then get matting of specific defined characteristics.

Yes, reinforced cement is a "composite" - it's got two elements at work. The rebar is the "fibrous" element, and the cement is the "resinoid binder." The principles are the same, but the levels of loading are fanstastically different. "Prestressed concrete" is also a composite - but the fibrous elements are threaded, plates are on the ends of the construction element, and the stress is applied (nuts tightened against the plates) once the cement has set. This introduces a compressive load on the cement - and cement is massively strong in compression. This is somewhat akin to "fastener preload" when torquing a screw - by inducing a low-level controlled stress on a threaded fastener, you make the joint effectively stronger.

Lexan (generic name "polycarbonate") is quite strong, but you'll have a difficult time getting it to stick to the body without a good deal of work - and it's a bear to patch should you need to.

With what you're thinking, I'm thinking that a "sandwich" approach - Herc, lay down some Dynamat, and Herc over that - might be more productive for you. Resins don't do well in sound-deadening - they're really only good when vacuum-poured (to remove air pockets/bubbles) or handled very carefully when poured (same reason,) which makes them solid. So, it's kinda like using a screwdriver handle to deaden sound - don't work well. The Herc/Dynamat/Herc approach will likely work better, because you'll be introducing the dead air space you'll want for sound insulation in there, but you'll have the direct rust-preventative coating of Herc on the metal and another coat overtop of the Dynamat as insurance. If you're going to go to this much trouble, tho, I'd suggest that you clean up any rust spots you find and prime/paint with a rust-converting coating before the Herc hits...

Oh - and don't get any Herculiner on your hootus (sorry, I really can't help myself...:conceited:twak::laugh3:)
 
Well since that idea isn't gonna float, is there a rubber product out there that comes in sheets that can be heat set or melted in that will really stick to the floors? I don't want to waste the money on a bedliner that is going to tear up in a year or so. I was looking for a rubber coating but couldnt find one. The stuff they dip pliers in would be awesome, but its expensive.

Someone in another thread (which I cannot find for the life of me) talked about putting down a tar based stripping that was cheap and very good at sound deadening. I know what I cant the floor to feel like and be as tough as but I cant put it into words so much.

I watched "How It's Made" on the super huge tires, and they had the soft-ish rubber strips that were put around the mandrel then expanded into the tire mold. I want something that is going to stick like hell to floor, can be laid in and heat set, has sound deadening properties, is tough and fairly cheap.

I know I am asking for alot, but there are many avenues I havent explored yet. I want it to be thicker than 1/4 inch too.



Any ideas? Maybe something unorthodox to try?
 
Pillage around, see what you can see.

Just for yucks, why not have a look at the following outfits:

MSC Direct (MRO Supply house. Their catalogue is huge! Get a copy anyhow...)
Wicks Aircraft Supply (kitbuilders' & experimenters' supply house. Sound-deadening at the firewall is common for light aircraft, ultralights, and other G/A kit.)
Aircraft Spruce & Supply (cf: Wicks.)

Those are the first things that leap to mind, but you might want to have a look at houses that cater to competition autosound as well - what you're looking for sounds like something they might keep around, or they'd have something close enough that you could make it work.
 
5-90 said:
"Fibreglas" isn't the resin - it refers to the matting used (glass fibres) and the resultant composite (glass fibre matting + resin, typically a two-part polyester.)

The resin itself is fairly tough, but not invulnerable. You can alter the mechanical characteristics by playing around with the mix (reduce the hardener, it gets a little tougher - but takes longer to set. Composites are all about compromise...) and, of course, there are other resins that could be used.

A "composite" of whatever sort (glass fibre and resin, carbon fibre and resin, aramid fibre and resin, cement and mild steel rods, ...) is composed of a minimum of two elements - a "strength element", or the fibrous component (glass/carbon/aramid fibres, steel rods, ...) and a "binder" that positively locates and retains the strength element (resinoid binder, cement, ...) The principal strength of the composite element comes from the fibrous element, which is then augmented by the binder.

If you look at most "tabletop" or "hobby" fibreglas kits, you'll note that the fibres run through the mat in random directions - again, a compromise. If you are going to do a dedicated layup for a part where structural concerns are key, you're probably going to use an "oriented" mat (anywhere between a 4-to-1 and a 15-to-1 weave, with the "1" member being to locate the other longwise fibres) and plan your layup carefully.

xcm - you probably have some idea what I'm talking about here, since you "dabble." I don't know how deeply you dabble - I've done a bit more design work than layups, tho. If/when I need to get fibreglas, I usually end up getting it from aero supply houses, since I can then get matting of specific defined characteristics.

Yes, reinforced cement is a "composite" - it's got two elements at work. The rebar is the "fibrous" element, and the cement is the "resinoid binder." The principles are the same, but the levels of loading are fanstastically different. "Prestressed concrete" is also a composite - but the fibrous elements are threaded, plates are on the ends of the construction element, and the stress is applied (nuts tightened against the plates) once the cement has set. This introduces a compressive load on the cement - and cement is massively strong in compression. This is somewhat akin to "fastener preload" when torquing a screw - by inducing a low-level controlled stress on a threaded fastener, you make the joint effectively stronger.

Lexan (generic name "polycarbonate") is quite strong, but you'll have a difficult time getting it to stick to the body without a good deal of work - and it's a bear to patch should you need to.

With what you're thinking, I'm thinking that a "sandwich" approach - Herc, lay down some Dynamat, and Herc over that - might be more productive for you. Resins don't do well in sound-deadening - they're really only good when vacuum-poured (to remove air pockets/bubbles) or handled very carefully when poured (same reason,) which makes them solid. So, it's kinda like using a screwdriver handle to deaden sound - don't work well. The Herc/Dynamat/Herc approach will likely work better, because you'll be introducing the dead air space you'll want for sound insulation in there, but you'll have the direct rust-preventative coating of Herc on the metal and another coat overtop of the Dynamat as insurance. If you're going to go to this much trouble, tho, I'd suggest that you clean up any rust spots you find and prime/paint with a rust-converting coating before the Herc hits...

Oh - and don't get any Herculiner on your hootus (sorry, I really can't help myself...:conceited:twak::laugh3:)
Click to expand...

Quite informative, thanks for the info :thumbup:

I see you know the Herculiner/Hootus story...did you get that from the explorer forums?
 
Another thing to think about if you're wanting something tougher than herc (which is pretty tough if applied correctly) another option is POR-15. More expensive than herc, comes in colors, doesn't fade, great rust proofer for interior or under-carriage and have heard it dries rock solid and won't even get damaged when sliding over rocks.
 
01LimitedXJ said:
Quite informative, thanks for the info :thumbup:

I see you know the Herculiner/Hootus story...did you get that from the explorer forums?
Click to expand...

Nah - saw the link here, actually. I just can't help but think about it whenever I see "Herculiner" used on the boards...

Everyone should have an MSC catalogue - they're free for the asking (I get one every year) and they're farkin' huge!

There's not much that's not in MSC - if I can't find it in there, I probably wouldn't look there in the first place. I also have a Small Parts, Inc. catalogue (spendy, but lots of oddball little stuff,) and a McMaster-Carr catalogue (if you get a print catalogue from them, it's gold! I've had mine for 15 years and I'm not about to get rid of it! Working the "drilldown" on their site can get a little tedious, and working through drilldown lists anywhere isn't conducive to proper sidewise thinking when working on a knotty problem.)
 
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