Bush Admin Bail outs in a sound economy!

Have you guys been sleeping while I was away dealing with IKE this past 2 weeks?

"Paulson urges quick action on $700 billion bailout"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080921...eltdown_320;_ylt=AtjVvGQ0Kpy98SxKYArxiGpv24cA


Stocks tumble after government bailout of AIG



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080917/ap_on_bi_st_ma_re/wall_street

"While relatively unknown on Main Street before Wednesday, AIG is a colossus on Wall Street and financial districts around the globe, with operations in more than 130 countries and $1 trillion in assets on its balance sheet. Besides life, property and other insurance offerings, AIG provides asset-management services and airplane leases. Its myriad businesses are also linked to mutual funds, annuities and other retirement products held by millions of ordinary Americans.
But perhaps the biggest concern about AIG is the dizzying array of complex financial instruments it structured for commercial banks, investment banks and hedge funds around the globe — many of which were directly or indirectly linked to the value of U.S. mortgages.
"AIG is in this mess because they got leveraged up to their eye balls," said Professor John Coffee of Columbia University Law School"


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/16/business/worldbusiness/16markets.html?hp

Fearing that the crisis in the financial industry could stun the broader economy, investors drove stocks down almost 5 percent Monday, sending the Dow Jones industrial average and Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index to their lowest levels in two years.

How a Market Crisis Unfolded


Global Markets React to Bank Woes


CNBC Video: Treasury Chief on Financial Turmoil CNBC Video: Corzine on Wall Street Turmoil
CNBC Video: Bush Remarks on Financial Turmoil

Related

Floyd Norris: Watching the Street: Lehman, Merrill and A.I.G. (September 15, 2008)

Fed Loosens Standards on Emergency Loans (September 15, 2008)

Lehman Files for Bankruptcy; Merrill Is Sold (September 15, 2008)



Traders on the São Paulo exchange bid prices in the Brazilian market down by 2.65 percent within five minutes of the opening on Monday, in reaction to losses among American banks. More Photos »
Enlarge This Image

Fred R. Conrad/The New York Times
Elizabeth Rose, a trader with Lehman Brothers, was among the many who contended with the news of the bankruptcy filing.



The Dow fell 504.48 points, its biggest one-day point drop since Sept. 17, 2001, the first trading day after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

The next domino, WaMu?
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/...shington_mutual_inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org

Dude, you're a couple of days behind. We had a thread about this topic just a day or two ago.

The general consensus is that it needed to be done to try and avert a global recession.

Plus, did you see the rebound that Wall St had the day after the AIG bail-out? It almost recovered the entire previous day's losses.

This may be one of the few times I agree with you... I also believe this is none of the gov'ts job. The whole idea behind free markets and capitalism is to keep gov't out and let the market dictate what businesses flourish and which ones fail.

Darky said:

This may be one of the few times I agree with you... I also believe this is none of the gov'ts job. The whole idea behind free markets and capitalism is to keep gov't out and let the market dictate what businesses flourish and which ones fail.

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Dude, that's complete and utter bullshit. Look at what happened to the saving and loans industry when Reagan deregulated that. Taxpayers were on the hook for that one. Same thing with that Downs Syndrome suffering president of ours. He deregulated all this crap that's going to hell in a hand basket, and we're paying for it?! All so some stupid rich assholes can get even richer?

WTF?!

We had market regulation fromthe 1930's until the early 70's when Nixon took us off the gold standard. We had the greatest economy in the world. And what has laissez faire capitalism gotten us? The Great Depression, the oil and energy crisis of the 70's, the saving and loans debacle of the 80's and now this.

You guys that want this are out of your minds. . . . .

Bush seeking $700 billion for financial bailout


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26803347/

Hey MIKE

WELCOME back sir.. Was happy to see your back ......

Brady is back too, he's been gone for a while, trying to get settled in ABQ I imagine.

How's it going up there buddy? We're only 4 hours apart now....

scottmcneal said:

Hey MIKE

WELCOME back sir.. Was happy to see your back ......

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I'm glad to be back too!

Glad to hear you're OK, Mike. Nice to see also, that Texas is taking care of itself, instead of waiting for the FEMA wagon to show up...........

BTW, take a break on the copy and paste-athon and visit this link. http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/07/top-senate-recipients-of-fanni.html

Both parties are acting like they're surprised that Freddie and Fannie are in trouble.....seems like a Ponzi scheme to me. Suck as much money out of the market as they can, the cannibolism of the greedy, exploiting the financially ignorant on the sub-prime vertical.

This is what "bigger government", more involvement in the private sector buys us.......a Trillion dollars more debt. How do you think the government will pay for this bailout? Print more money? Borrow from China, like they did to pay out the Bush rebates?

:skull2:

XJEEPER said:

Glad to hear you're OK, Mike. Nice to see also, that Texas is taking care of itself, instead of waiting for the FEMA wagon to show up...........

BTW, take a break on the copy and paste-athon and visit this link. http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/07/top-senate-recipients-of-fanni.html

Both parties are acting like they're surprised that Freddie and Fannie are in trouble.....seems like a Ponzi scheme to me. Suck as much money out of the market as they can, the cannibolism of the greedy, exploiting the financially ignorant on the sub-prime vertical.

This is what "bigger government", more involvement in the private sector buys us.......a Trillion dollars more debt. How do you think the government will pay for this bailout? Print more money? Borrow from China, like they did to pay out the Bush rebates?

:skull2:

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The way I understand it is that the gov't borrowed the money from other banks to give to the failing banks. Retarded if you ask me.

Darky said:

I also believe this is none of the gov'ts job. The whole idea behind free markets and capitalism is to keep gov't out and let the market dictate what businesses flourish and which ones fail.

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There are limitations. I agree with a free market/capitalism, but the government needs to provide oversight to prevent big businesses from getting out of control through financial abuse, cooking the books, and other actions that take advantage of people. With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, we are seeing a perfect example of what happens when there's no oversight. Democrats blocked every attempt to fix the problem.

I love it when people conveniently forget that we have a Congress.

Goatman said:

I love it when people conveniently forget that we have a Congress.

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Well with an aproval rating below 10%. It's pretty easy to forget they are there.

Maybe I ought to rephrase at least a little...I don't think the gov't should be giving money to people who screwed themselves before by not managing it well. It's partly my money too, do I get any sort of stock options in these companies? If the company used bad business practices, wasted all there money, what are we doing buying all of their screw ups while cutting their execs multi-million dollar parachutes? You screwed the place up, you fix it, or bring in someone who can and guess, what, the company has no money thanks to you, you're not gettin any!

Goatman said:

I love it when people conveniently forget that we have a Congress.

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Now if we could only get them to work for us...

:eyes:

Tom R. said:

There are limitations. I agree with a free market/capitalism, but the government needs to provide oversight to prevent big businesses from getting out of control through financial abuse, cooking the books, and other actions that take advantage of people. With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, we are seeing a perfect example of what happens when there's no oversight. Democrats blocked every attempt to fix the problem.

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Don't forget the financial regulation problem is now international, not just national. Corporations are international and the AIGs are huge international operations, no longer easily regulated by any one country.

I disagree with your statement that "Democrats blocked every attempt to fix the problem. Democrats typically favor more regulation, not less. I suspect the FM/FM problem was so huge, and Congress knew it (Dems and Repubs), that it was a hot potato that neither party wanted to get too close too for fear it would blow up on their watch, and for fear that mucking with it would actually cause its downfall.

I could also probably make the case that Dems wanted to bail out the home buyers before millions of foreclosures killed FM/FM, while Repubs waited for FM & FM to fail so they could bail them out with a Trillion dollars of tax payer guarantees when everyone was is too frightened not to approve the hugest bail out in world history.

Also, I am starting to get the impression that it was not just FM & FM that needed more regulation, but it was more the investment banks fault(s) for floating the mortgage derivatives world wide that are so complex that no one can properly value them when housing prices go (went) into a recession. That derivative market was the defacto real source of the mortgage and housing financial excesses, which dried up when the derivatives market and caused the collapse, because the derivatives could no longer be properly valued to determine actual losses, when they occurred, and thus the market for them collapsed to "0" value, which would indicate all US mortgages have a "0" value (which all know is not true), i.e. massive deflation became a real threat, the credit markets seized up, , which is why the Fed and Treasury had to step in.

I think we all hope and pray that the bail out is successful, because if it is not, we all f*cked!

One thing is for sure, GWB will go down in history as being the president who added the most to the federal deficit in one single month in the entire history of the USA.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13683.html

"Even if McCain had succeeded in strengthening oversight, it might not have prevented the subprime crisis. The oversight effort focused on executive earnings and accounting, not the company’s loan holdings.

The two government-sponsored companies have deep links to both campaigns.

Arthur B. Culvahouse Jr., picked by McCain to vet his vice presidential nominees, and Jim Johnson, initially picked by Obama to perform the same function, once worked for the mortgage giants. Johnson stepped down early in the process after controversy surfaced over his tenure.

Obama collected the second-highest amount in donations from the firms’ employees and political action committees of any member in Congress.

McCain campaign manager Rick Davis served as president of an advocacy group led by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that defended the two companies against increased regulation.

And least 20 McCain fundraisers have lobbied on behalf of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, netting at least $12.3 million in fees over the past nine years.

This summer, Democrats pushed through housing legislation that created stronger regulation and provided temporary authority for the Treasury to lend a financial hand to the government-chartered mortgage companies, if needed.

President Bush threatened to veto the legislation, but dropped his objection after a meeting with Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson. Six weeks later, the government seized control of the two companies and, soon after, developed a massive government intervention to buy up hundreds of billions in troubled assets throughout the marketplace."

Loan Titans Paid McCain Adviser Nearly $2 Million


By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK and CHARLES DUHIGG
Published: September 21, 2008
Senator John McCain’s campaign manager was paid more than $30,000 a month for five years as president of an advocacy group set up by the mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to defend them against stricter regulations, current and former officials say.....



http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/us/politics/22mccain.html?em

Ecomike said:

One thing is for sure, GWB will go down in history as being the president who added the most to the federal deficit in one single month in the entire history of the USA.

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More like he tried to stop a massive hemmorage with a bandaid.........we haven't even begun to see the collateral damage that's coming from the years of deception and greed that has perpetuated Washington.

Fire them all.......