Why Fram filters are bad

Heres a photo of proof for anyone who says that Fram oil filters are ok.
This was run in my father-in-laws race car (chev sb 350 yada yada not even remotely close to stock but still). it was run for about 20 minutes during engine break in. Note: thats why he had this filter on there, he didn't they were that bad even though i told him. he always cuts open the 1st filter after break in to check for to much metals. he was also having some strange oil pressure issues...
here's what the filter looked like:


material was a tiny bit better than cardboard.
just for some info....

yep they suck! there are so many differnt filters that work 100 times better out there they cost the same too.

I don't see a question.

I don't see Tech.

What I do see is another "put down this brand" post.

I have always used Fram filters, even when I drag raced (Built 360 MOPAR). I have never had a filter failure.

I have cut open countless oil filters, most of them small aircraft filters. I don't see anything out of the ordinary except the lack of Chevy part numbers caught in the pleats Dang! Another Chevy lives

Is it a secret that they use paper media?

I'm confused by this thread.

Don't be mad Zuki. You like orange and an easy grip. You should just once try a different filter(mobil1, napa, wix) and compare oil pressure to that of the fram(if you don't have the dummy light). Some have seen 10-15 more psi using a filter other than fram. They obviously work and you can get two for the price of one nice filter, but I'd rather pay that extra dough for the quality filtering medium instead of cardboard.

I worked for Napa for 6 years. We were darn good at putting down Fram. We had a cutaway display with a Fram, Napa Silver and a Napa gold filter on it. Truth be told the material was close to the same. However the Fram didn't have the pleats or the coil spring the Napa filters did. Just incase you didn't know all the Napa filters were made by wix at the time I was working there. I think they still are.

Zero

Hey, I'm not even a little bit perturbed

It's just that I've cut open literally dozens of aircraft filters, and quite a few of my racing filters, looking for part numbers. I have never seen anything particularly "different" about a Fram filter when compared to anything else.

My engine has 202K miles on it, and at hwy speed (2100rpm) has 50psi of pressure per the guage, and when HOT, has 15psi of pressure. I use 10-30W Valvoline dino-oil, and I've had that combo since I bought it at 132K.
I don't see a problem. Not in the slightest. Not even a little one.

Based on my 28 or so years of installing hundreds of Fram filters on my cars and trucks, and never, ever, having a problem, I label this thread SPOBI.

And, yes, I am turned on by the MOPAR orange color and the nice grippy top

Frams are cheaply made and there are way better choices for the money. The issue most people have with frams are the cardboard end caps and the cheap anti drain back valve, also fram had to modify their Cummins filter (PH3976 to PH3976A) because it was coming apart and pieces were lodging in the piston cooling nozzles causing catastrophic failures. Fram is no longer on the approved filter list for Cummins. The Dodge TSB for this is TSB 09-004-01.

But besides all that you don't have know chinese math to look at a fram and almost any other filter and know very quickly which is the better filter..... and BTW the napa is about $1 cheaper here.

NAPA Gold:




Fram Tough Guard:

I went out and cut open a PH-16 so I could get a solid view of our particular filter.

I found the setup much like the photo, but of course my technical opinion varies slightly from the accepted view here.

The rubber cone is the Anti-drain valve.

The filter is a metal center with holes in it, surrounded by a paper element glued to a paper retainer at the top, and bottom. The bottom retainer is a polygon to allow oil to flow past it.

The spring at the top is both a spring to seat the filter and anti-drain valve against the filter base, but also contains the bypass valve, which is plastic.

The oil flows in on the outside holes in the base, past the Anti-drain valve/seal and around the outside of the filter element, though the element, though the holes in the center core, and down the center of the filter core and out.

This operation really is not much different from the WIX and WIX does use a paper core and rubber anti-drain valve much like the Fram does.

Was I dissapointed not to see a pretty metal top and bottom filter ends, well, yah, but it works. So, I don't know about "Chinese math" but unless one can document Jeep engine failures directly attributable to Fram oil filters, I believe this discussion serves no real purpose except to bash a manufacture's product.

I personally will not run a Fram, although my mother ran Fram filters on her 82 Jetta until she got rid of it in 2003 and it still ran!

I can tell you that my 95 4.0 with 205,400 miles on it gets 20-40 psi at idle running a blend of Mobile 1 synthetic and Valvoline dino with about 4,000 miles on the oil and a 1 quart Motorcraft filter.

I almost don't want to reply because I want this thread to go away, but I can't help but asking, is everyone talking about the regular fram or the tough guard? I hear that there is a big difference. I think that the OP is showing a regular fram and subsequent posters are showing and discussing a tough guard.

All Fram filters use the same anti-drainback valve (a flimsy, rubberish POS). That, IMO, is the #1 reason to avoid the Fram. In most of my high mileage rigs, I've elimnated the lifter noise at startup by switching to the Wix/NAPA filter.

If you're changing your oil every 3,000-4,000 miles, then any filter made will do a fine job for filtering. Once again though, the Frams do have very flimsy anti-drainback valves.

When you start talking extended drain intervals, then its a whole different ball of wax.

EDIT: LOL why is my post count reset to 1? And no more good avatar?

I stopped using Frams after two cans blew off on my S-10 and one on my 4 cylinder Trooper II. Now I use Mobil-1, K&N or the occasional Mopar, I used the Mopars for a long time as I bought two cases when I bought my jeep new in 97. Once I ran out I switched to Mobil-1 but the stores were spotty in carrying them where K&N was always in stock at the two local parts stores. I never bothered with NAPA as they keep bankers hours and were never open when I was headed into work or coming home.

WIX all the way for me. There is a local mom-n-pop store that carries them. A bit of a drive but worth it to me.

I use the napa gold filters, they are basically the same price as fram. I dont see anything gained from using a fram, other than bragging that it hasnt failed? From the pics it looks like its cheaply made. Why buy something thats made cheap and pay the same price as something well made? It maybe not fail or cause any problems, but whats the gain? If something is made cheaply its going to have a higher failure rate, just because It hasnt happened to every single fram user doesnt mean much.

Im usually in napa anyways so I buy 2-3 for my car and jeep at the same time and have them on hand.

/opinion.

i have used fram tough gaurd filters and valvoline high mileage oil on my xj for the 6 years i have owned it....never once had a sinlge problem

bluejeepkid said:

i have used fram tough gaurd filters and valvoline high mileage oil on my xj for the 6 years i have owned it....never once had a sinlge problem

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I know people who have never changed the oil or oil filters in 6+ years and the cars still drive. Doesnt mean I want to test my luck....

I want to stack all the odds in my favor that I can.

3 Blown engines in my lifetime and all 3 had Fram filters. on my 1990 truck after a rebuild, I put on a Fram TG......oil pressure was like 15 lbs cold. I thought I did something wrong in the rebuild. I replaced the filter with a Wix and the oil pressure went up to 40 psi!!!!!! Fram filters suck, always have and always will. All of you guys who are singing Fram's praises, just wait...your time is coming and then let's see what you have to say......... WIX all the way!!!!!!!!!!

Zuki-Ron said:

unless one can document Jeep engine failures directly attributable to Fram oil filters, I believe this discussion serves no real purpose except to bash a manufacture's product.

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I documented Cummins engine failures, if fram is not an acceptable filter for that engine then I sure wouldn't use it on a jeep engine.
The only reason I posted pic's of a Tough Guard is that is what I had, the Orange can is a cheaper version of the TG with a rubber ADBV and gasket instead of the silicone on the TG version.

Zuki-Ron said:

I don't see a question.

I don't see Tech.

What I do see is another "put down this brand" post.

I have always used Fram filters, even when I drag raced (Built 360 MOPAR). I have never had a filter failure.

I have cut open countless oil filters, most of them small aircraft filters. I don't see anything out of the ordinary except the lack of Chevy part numbers caught in the pleats Dang! Another Chevy lives

Click to expand...

This isn't a "put down another brand post" this is a "save your engine post" atriot:, just trying to do all members a favor.