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MaCain Liberal?

SeansBlueXJ

NAXJA Forum User
I have seen it said here quite a few times that McCain is "too liberal" etc. Can someone explain how they see this? Granted he is not some very hardcore extreem right, mid-west christan conservative, but I would say he carries the party line pretty well and is nowhere neare liberal so someone explain please?:huh:

Edit: I noticed I miss-spelled McCain in my title, but I had already hit submit... one of the 2 seconds too late things.
 
If you look at his voting record you will see that he has voted against Republicans more than voting with them. The only places where I see him to be conservative are his gun laws and views on the military. For a while he was in favor of an open border with Mexico. That is definitely liberal to me.
 
kdailey4315 said:
If you look at his voting record you will see that he has voted against Republicans more than voting with them. The only places where I see him to be conservative are his gun laws and views on the military. For a while he was in favor of an open border with Mexico. That is definitely liberal to me.

yet according to NObama last night, he has voted 90% the same as Bush?!
 
Yeah sorry about that, see my edit that I was in the middle of when you posted. And all due respect back, while I dont necessairly want to see Obama win, I think he very well may be the next president. Personally I think I wont vote for either.
 
JrTxJ said:
yet according to NObama last night, he has voted 90% the same as Bush?!
Sorry as soon as I hear/see "according to Obama" my bullshit detector goes off and I don't listen to it or read it. :D
 
If you are comparing traditional Conservative VS Liberal views and aligning them with Republicans VS Democrats, then I would agree that McCain is liberal.

That being said, our other choice (Obama) what I consider a Socialist in ideology. I watched his speach last night and I'm even more convinced that his goal is to promote a Socialist agenda. Obama committed to many things last night, but I've yet to hear any details on how he will accomplish these. I'm anxiously awaiting a head to head debate between Obama and McCain, to see how each of them address, in detail, the tough issues that we are facing as a nation.

The part of Obama's speech about how much of the nation is struggling to pay their mortgage, having to sell their vehicles, rampant bankrupcy and foreclosures and many who can't find a job.......pure bullcrap. The majority that are experincing these issues are feeling the effects of poor finacial choices and mis-management of their money.......living outside of their means.

I'm in what I would consider the middle-class from an income perspective and I've increased my earnings every year for the last 10 years. This year my income will be double what it was 6 years ago.

I have a home with close to $100,000 in equity in it, which I did not gamble with by taking out a sub-prime 2nd at 125% loan/value and buy lots of toys that I can't afford.

We the People really need to put the Legislative Branch of our government under the microscope. Nothing will get their attention like a mass firing. They need to know that American citizens are pissed and their jobs are on the line.

They need to be held accountable for their actions and inaction to represent the will of the People that the were elected to represent. We need to stop blaming the President for everything and look at those who are getting their palms greased by the lobbyists and special interest groups.

McCain is definitely not my ideal choice for President, but I'll take 4 years with him over Obama. BTW, I'm Independant.
 
kdailey4315 said:
For a while he was in favor of an open border with Mexico. That is definitely liberal to me.

Actually, not true.
While "liberals" are in favor of an open border it is more for human rights and for poor oppressed people to escape the poverty they live in seeking a better life here in the US. and if you have ever been to some of those shit hole 3rd world countries, other than the drunken fiesta resorts you would understand why they want to come here.

McCain is in favor of an open border because he wants a free market, that's conservative talk for "cheap labor" force. He doesn't really care about working families as (ok this next part is 2nd hand) at a DHL facility that was threaten with closing putting working Americans on the employment rolls he stated something along the line of it's not an issue in a free market.

Oh and the military thing, do you know we have fewer carrier battle groups than at anytime since before WWII. McCain supported the decommissioning of the last carrier (Kitty or Kennedy?) WITHOUT authorizing building a new carrier. McCain also has cut veteran's benefits.

What has me scratching my head is why he selected a union member to be his running mate.
 
XJEEPER said:
We the People really need to put the Legislative Branch of our government under the microscope. Nothing will get their attention like a mass firing. They need to know that American citizens are pissed and their jobs are on the line.

They need to be held accountable for their actions and inaction to represent the will of the People that the were elected to represent. We need to stop blaming the President for everything and look at those who are getting their palms greased by the lobbyists and special interest groups.

I'm thinking of voting for Cindy Sheehan to send Representative Nancy Pelosi a message. Nancy's not bringing any money or jobs into San Francisco, she said she was going to impeach President Bush and bring the troops home, and she hasn't delivered. (before you flame out, I am NOT advocating those positions, they are examples.) REP Pelosi has been a hollow representative, no results from being at the capitol. Cindy Sheehan won't accomplish anything either, but it will surely send a message to all incumbents that they should start doing a better job of doing the bidding of the citizens they represent.

About blaming the President, he is suppose to be the leader, the CEO of the US, the reason it's called the Executive Branch. To be a true leader means to be held accountable for the good and the bad.
 
kdailey4315 said:
If you look at his voting record you will see that he has voted against Republicans more than voting with them. The only places where I see him to be conservative are his gun laws and views on the military. For a while he was in favor of an open border with Mexico. That is definitely liberal to me.

The open border with Mexico was actually a progression of what Regan started, a North American co prosperity sphere. Loosen up the borders and bootstrap our southern neighbors into a position where they won't want to immigrate to the north. And at the same time encourage industry and management to immigrate to Mexico, export knowhow. It may have actually worked out if people were willing to give it a chance. It was no sooner partially implemented and people starting chipping away at the process, both Republicans and Democrats..
One of Americas strengths has always been market share and a very large consumer market. America is a sizable percentage of many countries GNP. Three hundred and sixty million people under one moderately functional government, A government that wields a very large hammer in world affairs, both politically and economically.
Conservative doesn't necessarily mean non progressive, it means they tend to stick to tried and proved formulas.
The European union is in the process of doing what Regan envisioned for North America. They now outnumber the US in population and GDP.
I really can't see how a static America or a shrinking America is going to keep it's place in world events.
McCain tends to represent the majority in his views, the views of the people who elected him, not the views of his party. He is also politician enough to get things done, even when he is moving against the flow (party lines). Pragmatic pops to mind as a one word definition.
We are in a war and people expect things to proceed as usual, the economy not to be affected and to not have to sacrifice anything in the process.
The neo body politic reminds me of the old saying about mushrooms, keep them in the dark and feed them manure. People are complaining about the amount and quality of the manure, while the house burns down.
 
kdailey4315 said:
If you look at his voting record you will see that he has voted against Republicans more than voting with them.

Can you back that claim up with unbiased references?
 
XJEEPER said:
If you are comparing traditional Conservative VS Liberal views and aligning them with Republicans VS Democrats, then I would agree that McCain is liberal.

That being said, our other choice (Obama) what I consider a Socialist in ideology. I watched his speach last night and I'm even more convinced that his goal is to promote a Socialist agenda. Obama committed to many things last night, but I've yet to hear any details on how he will accomplish these. I'm anxiously awaiting a head to head debate between Obama and McCain, to see how each of them address, in detail, the tough issues that we are facing as a nation.

The part of Obama's speech about how much of the nation is struggling to pay their mortgage, having to sell their vehicles, rampant bankrupcy and foreclosures and many who can't find a job.......pure bullcrap. The majority that are experincing these issues are feeling the effects of poor finacial choices and mis-management of their money.......living outside of their means.

I'm in what I would consider the middle-class from an income perspective and I've increased my earnings every year for the last 10 years. This year my income will be double what it was 6 years ago.

I have a home with close to $100,000 in equity in it, which I did not gamble with by taking out a sub-prime 2nd at 125% loan/value and buy lots of toys that I can't afford.

We the People really need to put the Legislative Branch of our government under the microscope. Nothing will get their attention like a mass firing. They need to know that American citizens are pissed and their jobs are on the line.

They need to be held accountable for their actions and inaction to represent the will of the People that the were elected to represent. We need to stop blaming the President for everything and look at those who are getting their palms greased by the lobbyists and special interest groups.

McCain is definitely not my ideal choice for President, but I'll take 4 years with him over Obama. BTW, I'm Independant.

While I agree with parts of what you said above, you might want to recheck that home equity you think you still have. Several parts of the country have seen housing price drops as much as 50% from their recent peaks. I live in Houston, where the housing market is still stable, I already lived through the last bubble burst in the 1980s here when ALL the real estate, banks and most businesses went belly up. During that time the Republicans did nothing to help us get back on our feet. California, and New York banks basically bought Texas at a back door auction for $1.00 in the early to mid 80's. It has taken me 25 years to get back on my feet. Even if your housing market is still OK, like mine is right now, if we don't help stop the hemoraging (sp?) in that market, it will spill over into the rest of the economy, which is already happening (credit crunch) and turn it into a world wide recession that will eventually hurt all of us.
 
Boatwrench said:
Actually, not true.
While "liberals" are in favor of an open border it is more for human rights and for poor oppressed people to escape the poverty they live in seeking a better life here in the US. and if you have ever been to some of those shit hole 3rd world countries, other than the drunken fiesta resorts you would understand why they want to come here.

McCain is in favor of an open border because he wants a free market, that's conservative talk for "cheap labor" force. He doesn't really care about working families as (ok this next part is 2nd hand) at a DHL facility that was threaten with closing putting working Americans on the employment rolls he stated something along the line of it's not an issue in a free market.

Oh and the military thing, do you know we have fewer carrier battle groups than at anytime since before WWII. McCain supported the decommissioning of the last carrier (Kitty or Kennedy?) WITHOUT authorizing building a new carrier. McCain also has cut veteran's benefits.

Not disagreeing with you, but can you post some proof of that! Might help wake up some of these NAXJA hard heads here! One of the things Obama has said repeatedly is that unlike the recent Republican administration and Congress, he has and will increase funding for Veterans benefits so that they can get the medical care they need and that they were promised.

Boatwrench said:
What has me scratching my head is why he selected a union member to be his running mate.

Nothing baffling about that, it was a pure get the Union, pro gun lobby, uncomitted female get the vote, political distraction. But I agree, nothing about his VP choice makes much sense. Just a desperate, last minute, snap politcal decision move, in my opinion, which shows what he might do under other deperate circumstances if elected, should he find himself in desperate circumstances as our president, which scares the hell out of me!:eek:

She has no real credible credentials for being the Commander in Chief, except for being a city council women and mayor of a huge city of something like 6,600 people. And Governor of vast snow and ice covered, sparsly populated state for kless than 2 years. My God, is that best he could find as his runner up left in the Republican party?

Forget for a minute that she claims to be a Republican, and ask yourself if you can really picture her as the Comander in Chief as we face a new Russian (Soviet) threat?
 
Ecomike said:
She has no real credible credentials for being the Commander in Chief, except for being a city council women and mayor of a huge city of something like 6,600 people. And Governor of vast snow and ice covered, sparsly populated state for kless than 2 years. My God, is that best he could find as his runner up left in the Republican party?

Forget for a minute that she claims to be a Republican, and ask yourself if you can really picture her as the Comander in Chief as we face a new Russian (Soviet) threat?
Whatever her credentials or lack thereof, she's second in line. McCain would have to die or get impeached for her to be Commander in Chief. Obama doesn't have much more experience and he would be the Commander in Chief if elected.
 
Ecomike said:
While I agree with parts of what you said above, you might want to recheck that home equity you think you still have.

No need to recheck it, Mike. It's accurate based on current market values and comparisons of recent sales in the my area. Thanks for feeling you need to question the accuracy of my data.

Still makes my point accurate, the folks that choose to live within their means, with little or 0 consumer debt will be just fine.........I'm still angry that Congress is making me pay for the others that got themselves upside down on their mortgages/2nds.

BTW, I like what you said about the 80's economy being in the crapper, which is great reason to learn from them and not to elect another Jimmy Carter.
 
Darky said:
Whatever her credentials or lack thereof, she's second in line. McCain would have to die or get impeached for her to be Commander in Chief. Obama doesn't have much more experience and he would be the Commander in Chief if elected.

So you think McCain is going to be in good enough health to make it to his 80th birthday during the next 8 years? Hasn't he had malignant skin cancer several times already? That tells me he is a ticking cancer time bomb, having had skin cancer that many times already.

I was having a hard enough time visualizing Hilliary as the President, even with all of her experience. Interesting to note, that if McCain wins, and then croaks by some natural cause, we would have 2 women, house wives, in line for direct succesion to the Presidents office!:(
 
XJEEPER said:
No need to recheck it, Mike. It's accurate based on current market values and comparisons of recent sales in the my area. Thanks for feeling you need to question the accuracy of my data.

Still makes my point accurate, the folks that choose to live within their means, with little or 0 consumer debt will be just fine.........I'm still angry that Congress is making me pay for the others that got themselves upside down on their mortgages/2nds.

BTW, I like what you said about the 80's economy being in the crapper, which is great reason to learn from them and not to elect another RONALD REAGAN.

There I correct it for you! Reagan was the man with the plan from 1981 to 1989.
 
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