Quick Water and PS Pump Questions- need smarter folks than I.

In question here is my 97 XJ Sport. 4.0L, A/C, Auto yadda yadda. 130K on the clock, no internal work done. AFAIK, all bearings, pulleys, and pumps are original, except for the PS pump, which I changed 2ish years ago. I reused the original pulley, but I'm wondering, is it a good idea to replace the pulley as well. It appears that the pulley itself isn't true, or perhaps it's just the bearings in the pump. I don't want to buy parts I don't need to, but I also don't want to ruin good parts with cheap bad parts.

I've got the belt off, diagnosing a failing PS pump. In checking all the pulleys for play and drag, I notice everything spins freely, and quietly, except for the PS and water pumps. When spinning the water pump pulley, there is a slight noise. It's a bit muffled; audible, but nothing like the metallic screeching that others describe when the WP fails; it's not a metal on metal sound. Think squeegee over a hard, smooth, surface. It spins, albeit not as freely as anything else, which I would assume has something to do with all that fluid sitting on it, but I'm curious-

Is this a normal sound for a WP? Should it be silent, or should some noise be expected? On the 4th, we pulled the Tstat to replace a leaking gasket, and I did a drain/rinse/chemical flush/rinse/distilled water rinse on the cooling system, before filling with fresh coolant, distilled water, and WaterWetter.

I have no leaks, no overheating issues, no odd vibrations at speed, nothing out of the ordinary otherwise (in fact, it's running just a few degrees cooler than before- the old coolant looked like a mix of chocomilk and coolant, despite being changed yearly). I would expect some resistance or noise from the water pump, assuming it has some sort of seals internally, but this rubbery noise caught my attention.

Apologies for the long post, I just wanted to make sure the pertinent details are there so you don't have to spend half an hour asking questions to offer a simple answer. I've got to have this thing together tonight, and I'm honestly dreading having to go after the water pump as well as the ps pump. I hate to be ignorant on this kind of thing, but I don't have any buddies who are wrench turners, so the forums are my only decent source of info. I appreciate any insight here.

Thanks,
hub

edit: Now that it's cooled off a little more, I can get a grip on the pulley. It's got some side to side slop- not much, measures about 1/32nd or thereabouts. I can also hear a slight thunk when I move it side to side. This isn't a good thing, is it?

:roflmao:first off, i'm not smarter!

Sounds like nothing is amiss. pretty much normal sloppiness for a jeep.
Water pump seals create quite a bit of drag on the shaft, since they have to contain superheated water at 16+ psi.

power steering pumps are pretty draggy too, since the internal pressure can exceed 1500 psi. neither one of these pumps should be that easy to turn.

a better gauge of wear is runout, try wiggling the pulleys. they should be solid and not wobby in the least.

after you remove the PS pump, the water pump is cake to R&R.
you can do it without completely removing the PS pump, but keeping the gasket aligned becomes a bitch.

the side to side movement is a bit much, but if doesnt eat coolant..its your call

92DripCherokee said:

a better gauge of wear is runout, try wiggling the pulleys. they should be solid and not wobby in the least.

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Mmmm, not good. Both pulleys wobble, and both make some noise. I think I know what comes next, I just don't like it. For the money and effort involved, and the fact that I rely on this thing to make the money which the Jeep then takes a good portion of... I should probably just make an afternoon of it and replace both pumps, eh?

Just saw the second post. It doesn't eat coolant, but the old PS pump worked fine until it started screaming and spitting metal everywhere. I'd really be in some poop if the WP died that dramatically. I'd love to skip replacing it, and just deal with the PS, but if I fix that, and I've still got problems... I'll be doing it all over again. Gah.

a OEM Jeep pump will outlast anything else.
2 or three times the price, and 4 times the lifespan of chinese shite.

if your going to do the water pump, do the hoses
and the same for the PS pump. I just did my PS hoses a month ago.

tip- do the greasy PS pump first, not a good idea to get PS fluid on the radiator hoses.
they get amazingly soft from oil spillage.

Anyone got the water pump torque specs? The Haynes says "use specified torque", and the water pump says "use torque specified by factory", but I can't find any torque spec for the pump.

I've tried searching for water pump torque specs on here, and all I get is garbage. Could someone throw me a bone here? I've been at this all evening, after working on my power steering pump this morning through lunch. I really just want to put it back together, take a shower, and sleep.

Thanks,
hub

edit: I found 17ftlbs listed as coming from a 2000 FSM, while digging through some older threads on JU. I'm going to run with this, assuming my wrench will go that low. God I hope some of you are awake and lurking at this hour. If this isn't a good number, please say something.

hubs97xj said:

Anyone got the water pump torque specs? The Haynes says "use specified torque", and the water pump says "use torque specified by factory", but I can't find any torque spec for the pump.

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2000 FSM Water Pump—Bolts 17 Ft Lbs
Water Pump or Hub Bearing—Nuts 20 Ft Lbs

Great, thank you both. I'm down to torquing stuff down and starting her up to burp and leakcheck. Wonder if I've screwed anything else up.

One last question. How do those of you with the later models that are equipped with serp belts do your tensioning? I've read that the serp belts have to be really tight, and then I've read that overtightening them induces premature failures in the pulleys and pumps. I'm not sure I've ever had this one quite right, as the gals at the local parts houses haven't had any real idea what a belt tension gauge was, or if one was available for serpentine belts (someone had a device for V belts IIRC, but I don't have any idea if it would work for mine).

Thanks,
hub

I use the Krikit II tool from NAPA.

http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPag...PartNumber=KR2&Description=Belt+Tension+Gauge

I just changed my water pump today too, along with a CSF 3-row radiator.

Awesome. Not available locally, but at least I can order one. Thanks again.

Without a tension guage I just tighten the belt until I can just take the middle of the belt with my fingers and twist it 90 degrees. It just loosens up from then on anyway.

That's about how tight it is now. In the past few years, I've alternated between squealing when the compressor runs, and wrecking 2 PS pumps and perhaps a WP (although she's got 130K on the clock, and it's a Chryco pump, I don't know that it's the original pump. I think I got the belt too tight last week, but as the PS pump had been leaking for a year, and I figured I was at the end of the WP lifespan, I don't know that they would have lasted much longer anyway).

It's together, the garage is mostly dry, no more bearing, pulley, or pump noise, and no leaks so far. Subscription to purchased- a little support for your group, in return for all the help that's probably saved me a small fortune, what with all the work I've done on the Heep lately. Thanks guys.

xjohnnyc said:

I use the Krikit II tool from NAPA.

http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=470&LineCode=NBH&PartNumber=KR2&Description=Belt+Tension+Gauge

Click to expand...

[FONT=&quot]Everyone should have a KriKit II in his or her toolbox or glove box. Serpentine belts need to be tight and this is an easy and accurate way of setting the tension.[/FONT].

Seconded. Thanks for the tip on that one. Got everything squared away now.

lazyxj said:

[FONT=&quot]Everyone should have a KriKit II in his or her toolbox or glove box. Serpentine belts need to be tight and this is an easy and accurate way of setting the tension.[/FONT].

Click to expand...

Yup, and I always say...the only thing worse than undertightening a belt is overtightening it.