how does an engine "blow"?

short story:

engine was running fine.
then started to leak oil
then started leaking enough to smoke
took it to machanic to have main seal replaced
got jeep back
driving down freeway after repairs look down and notice that engine is hot and no oil pressure.
pull off freeway have jeep towed back to repair shop
repair shop says crank shaft messed up and engine is blown...

WTF happend?

Long version
I’ve had the jeep for about 2 years. Bought the 1990 XJ limited from lady who’d never had it off road.
Jeep ran fine until about June of 2007 when I started to notice it would leak oil (small drips) after a long run on the freeway at high speed (70+) like from Calico to Corona about a 100 miles from between the transmission and the engine. By September, it would drip every time I stopped. By November it was leaking so bad it would drip on the exhaust pipe and smoke going down the freeway, so I parked it till I could get it fixed.
I had discussed all of the symptoms with my uncles who work as mechanics for GM in Detroit and they said it was most likely the main seal.
I don’t have the knowledge or the time to do it myself.
Well that day to get it repaired came last week. I took it to Son’s Auto repair (a general auto repair shop I’d gone to in the past to have my steering column replaced) and asked them to fix the oil leak by replacing the main seal.
The jeep was ready in a couple days. I picked it up and drove it home. It seemed to drive fine. I didn’t look or notice anything odd with the oil pressure.

On Saturday, I packed up the jeep with the kids and was going out to Azusa to let them play in the mud. On the way there, about 6 miles down the freeway when I noticed the temp was going towards the red.
Then I looked over and there was no oil pressure. The next exit was quarter mile away so I coasted to the end of the off ramp and shut it off. I called the shop and they had it towed back to them.
I called them today and they tell me that the crank shaft is damaged and that’s why there’s no oil pressure. They tell me that the engine needs to either be rebuilt or replaced... WTF Happened?

How does an engine blow?
what should those options cost?
Rebuild? Replace with used engine?
I am pissed... but not sure what to do...

What would you do?

Thanks
Ken

An engine does not just "blow", and who ever came up with that term should be shot in the face (it sounds so ignorant.) The problem with your crankshaft is that it has spun a bearing, which means that the thin sliver of metal that acts as a "guide" inside your motor to keep things spinning smooth has failed. When these guys were changing your main seal (which is the oil seal for your crankshaft) they probably banged it on with a hammer, cause thats just what a lot of guys do. This could very well have knocked your crank outta line enough to spin a bearing, and cause all sorts of other things to happen, such as oil pump failure (which is also run off of the crankshaft.) I would take your Jeep back to that shop, if you havent already, and get these guys to show you where they DIDNT cause anything to happen, and if they cant prove anything, make a scene. Things like that just dont happen. They did something to it. No way that is a coincidence. PM me if you have any detailed questions....

Three ways I can think of for the job to go bad (off hand, though there are more)
!. They didn't clean out the pan the junk started moving around and the oil pickup got plugged eventually.
2. The oil pump picked enough junk to force a filter bypass and the oil passages got blocked.
3. They forgot to tighten the rear main cap or didn't get the bearing in correctly after it fell out.

If the seal went out again there should be a bunch of oil underneath and likely blown onto the rear hatch. If the pickup is plugged you can see that. emptying the filter into a can will tell you how much junk is in there. Comparing the main bearing wear will tell you if it was a general oil starvation or just one main.
IMO if the guys won't let you look, get a lawyer. If they are worth a chit, split the cost of repair with them, (less labor) that's on them.

I think that he will have a tough time proving that this shop actually caused the damage.

Here’s the steps that I would take:

#1) Get you Jeep back from shop #1.

#2) Take it to a shop with at least three qualified ASE certified techs.

#3) Tell the shop up front your story and that you are considering taking the first shop to small claims court. Tell shop #2 that you want them to tell you if shop #1 caused the damage or not. Also ask shop #2, that if they feel that shop #1 caused the damage if they would testify to that fact in small claims court.

#4) If shop #2 says that shop #1 did the damage, then ask them for a written statement – signed by three ASE certified techs – with their credentials. Go file a small claim against shop #1 after you know the monetary damage amount.

#5) If shop #2 says that shop #1 did not cause the damage, or if there is no way to know or not, then you are screwed. Buy another engine and then learn to fix your own junk. It’s the reason many of us have bought FSMs and learned to do it ourselves.


Good luck! :thumbup:

Easy way. acquire replacement engine. If you are of the mechanical sort install engine and drive on. I "blew":smsoap: the head gasket on my 90 Laredo w/ 208,000 mi I purchased an engine from LKQ online and installed it myself. There were a number of issues I had to deal w that took some McGivering. my 99 engine had all wrangler accessories. that all had to go, especially the water pump...wrangler pump is incompatible w cherokee viscous fan. All of my replacement parts came from Autozone.If you are going to do a cooling system upgrade discard the old fan switch and use the late model themostat housing. save the elec connector from the wiring harness and use the switch on the housing at the hottest point to turn on the fan. The hardest thing to do was to drill the head for the oil pressure sender on the back of the head. you will drill the new hole right where the old one was on the old engine. Tap hole for sender. I got the tap from RAYCO products, this is also your cooling system burp hole. Re-install and have fun, this engines' so fast.arty:

Could they have knocked the oil pick up loose? When you where driving, it could have fallen the rest of the way out. Explains the sudden loss of oil pressuse. The pan can be a bear to get out around the pick up somtimes. Good luck.

atriot:

well it starts off by pulling down your pants ahahahaha:jesterarty1:

RTicUL8 said:

. Buy another engine and then learn to fix your own junk. It’s the reason many of us have bought FSMs and learned to do it ourselves.

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x2

ExJayRob said:

An engine does not just "blow", and who ever came up with that term should be shot in the face (it sounds so ignorant.) ..

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Having survived a crankcase explosion in the engine room of a ship, I can safely say, you are the ignorant one. Engines can blow.

Now the term "blow" has become a common term (like Kleenex for facial tissue and Xerox for photo copies) for all failures related to engines. From the discription of this particular failure sounds like when the oil pan was off, the oil sump pump lost prime, no pressure to bearings, they failed and the crank was scored.

Boatwrench said:

Engines can blow.

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Started with a little noise in the distributer. Then turned to a loud noise from the distributer. Not always, but time to time. Ended with a tink, tink, tink, as something was bouncing between ground and jeep as I drove. Looked in mirror to see that I can't see. Looked out window to see a black cloud billowing out behind me. Distributer brass bushing shot, studdered the engine long enough to brake gears on distributer, cam, hick-up crank long enough to snap a rod. Rod went past piston pin, mushroomed the piston, and shoved it back up the bore. Rod cam out and punched hole in block next to header collector. Oil hit collecter and shattered it from the heat of exhaust. Rod continued to spin about till I could get off road, taking out oil pump and oil pan. Head is only surviver, and is bieng reused now. Long story short. IT F'EN BLEW.

Update - how does an engine "blow"?

Well, here is the update.

I went back to talk to him with an open mind although still very upset.

He took me to the jeep and showed me the parts.

he took one of the rings and showed me how pitted and scored they were and explained that they were considerably thinner than what it was supposed to be.

here is a pic i took (damn crappy cell phone)


he said that damagelooked like that it had been going on for a while and might have been the reason the main seal started leaking in the first place.

his explaination for it initially having oil pressure is that there may have been gunk in there becuause the motor was cold, but once it warmed up the gunk could have lost the pressure.

This seems like a reasonable explaination to me. Am I being naive?

He said he has a couple good yard he deals with and says he can get an engine and put it in for about $1100.

does this sould like a good deal?

the other option would be to buy another jeep. and swap parts. - a long list of parts...


your thoughts?

Ken

The estimate is very fair imho. The shops explanation seems reasonable. I'd take the deal and ask them to help me out by standing behind the motor they put it. Something like at least 90 days to make sure you get a good one to begin with.

Re: Update - how does an engine "blow"?

IMORTL said:

Well, here is the update.

I went back to talk to him with an open mind although still very upset.

He took me to the jeep and showed me the parts.

he took one of the rings The picture is a bearing shell and showed me how pitted and scored they were and explained that they were considerably thinner than what it was supposed to be. True, from no oil pressure

he said that damage looked like that it had been going on for a while and might have been the reason the main seal started leaking in the first place. You admitted to running the engine with a leak, a major one if your burning oil on the exhaust and smoking but a worn bearing causing a main oil seal to leak would be a 1st for me, highly unlikely in my opinion. Wear on the bearing like that would make a horriffic sound, but I have never heard of a worn bearing causing a seal to leak

his explaination for it initially having oil pressure is that there may have been gunk in there becuause the motor was cold, but once it warmed up the gunk could have lost the pressure.Oil pressure will drop some when it warms, what kinda mechanic doesn't clean the parts before re-installing them, he should have cleaned the gunk out of the bottom of the sump when he had the pan off

This seems like a reasonable explaination to me. Am I being naive?

He said he has a couple good yard he deals with and says he can get an engine and put it in for about $1100.

does this sould like a good deal? $1,100 sounds like a good deal IF you had gone in there and asked for an engine replacement to begin with. It's hard to really actually know what's going on via this forum and not seeing the old parts. My gut says this guy is covering his tracks a little.

the other option would be to buy another jeep. and swap parts. - a long list of parts...
How much do you like this Jeep? My rules of thumb on keeping a vehicle is, How confident I am that the Jeep will get me from Point A to Point B without breaking down? Will I let my wife drive it? What shape the body is in, particularlly regarding rust?

your thoughts?
After reading through this thread again Definitely a loss of oil pressure. I tend to believe the suggestion that the pick-up may have come off. However, and I'm not sure with this engine...the pick-up may not only being pressed into the pump body, but may also have a strap and retaining bolt.
Ken

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Ken,
I feel for ya. Good luck.
Tom

mflueras said:

The estimate is very fair imho. The shops explanation seems reasonable. I'd take the deal and ask them to help me out by standing behind the motor they put it. Something like at least 90 days to make sure you get a good one to begin with.

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he said they would get the engine and do the compression tests before accepting it and make sure it had a 6 month guarantee...

also said it sould take 2 days to get it done once they find an engine...

Ken

IMO sounds good and you are back on the road quickly with a guarantee. Try to get an engine with less than 50,000 mi on it if its a recycled engine, mine from LKQ had 55,000 and it is very nice.Take the deal