Jeep Intermittently Stays running.. Please Read / Give Advise

This may be fairly long, but i want to explain everything in detail so that you have a better understanding of what is going on..

I have a 90 with the I6 (RENIX).

Lately here in Bend its been colder then usual, around a consistent 0-5 degrees in the morning up to no more then 32 degrees throughout the day. The Jeep has been running great, then i noticed a problem.

I would start my Jeep every morning via remote start, and my 2 way remote told me that it wouldnt start... (it tries 3 times to start before it does this) I would try it again, and it would finally start... I just "assumed" that this was related to the colder weather and nothing more.

On Wednesday of this week, i went to start it before lunch with the remote start. This time it told me that it wouldnt start a couple of times... I didnt try it again, cause i wanted to be there when it was happening. I got in and i attempted to start the Jeep. It would start then immediatly die. It did this about 6 times, so i knew something was up. The first thing i thought of was the ballast resistor on the passenger side of the fender. I took the leads off of the resistor, and cleaned them up, and put them back on and still no go. I told my girlfriend to hold them together, and it immediatly started and stayed running... At this point i thought ok 99.9 % its the resistor. I bypassed the resistor, and off i went.

Everything seemed great untill i went to the grocery store last night. I went to start the Jeep while in the checkout line and the remote told me it wouldnt start. I got to the Jeep and tried it again same result as Wednesday. Would start but then Die right after starting. I scratched my head at this point because the ballast resistor was already bypassed... I popped the hood, and wiggled the wires at the ballast bypass, and still same starting pattern. I checked the ballast resistor "plug" or "output" at the starter relay next to the battery. Took the wire off, all looked clean, put it back on wiggled it etc .. still no go. The next step i took was i grabed a cresent wrench from inside the Jeep, and tapped all the relays a few times on the top of them to see if maybe one was stuck or something.. Including the starter relay. Still did not stay running. The last thing i did was take all the relays out and swap them around. BAM! it started right up and stayed running.

At this point i thought ok, wrong diagnosis on Wednesday, it must have been a fubar relay. Got some food went home, and decided i would replace all these relays tommorow (Friday).

So this morning (friday morning) I go to start the Jeep, and the remote tells me that it failed! WTF!!! I tried it again, and luckily it stayed running. (So this was the 4th time trying to start it)

At this point i have no freaking clue what could be causing this. My logic tells me its very very unlikely that i have two bad relays... but i guess possible... I just dont know anymore.. thats why im here sharing my long long story to try and get some help.
I personally dont think its the fuel pump, cause if you leave the key in the start position, it stays running, but once you let go (and the key rests in the on position) is when it dies.

Could it be two relays?? Fuel pump even though it stays running when the key is in the start position?? Something to do with these relays and the cold weather??

Also, will any generic 30 AMP relay work as replacements?

Any help and advise would be greatly appreciated...

Thanks for your time!

I've seen this problem before. Not to rule anything else out, but from your description, it could very well be the electrical ignition switch located on top of your steering colum. It's a slide switch operaterd by a rod coming down from the ignition lock. Sometimes the contacts get burned to the point the ignition circut will only make contact when the in the starting position (starter cranking). When the engine fires and you release the key, the engine then dies. It also could explain the intermitant nature. Sometimes it continues to make contact, sometimes not. That type of problem only gets worse. Only solution is to drop the collum and replace it. You can check it by getting a wiring diagram and Jump the ignition circut bypassing the swith. As a stop-gap measure, you can put a toggle switch in there until you make the repairs and start it normally with the key. At least that gets you on the road. Just don't forget to turn the toggle off after you turn the key off since the engine may still run until you do. Hope that helps.

Sorry, I forgotabout the remote start part of your post. There has to be a relay (or two) that the remote start system engages to both energise the ignition circut and the starter circut. It could be one of those relays as you said or simply a loose wire/connection also.

No, I don't think it's his remote start system because it does the same thing when he tries to start it with the key....Sounds to me like the beginnings of a CPS going bad...not 100% that the Renix's had a CPS, but I'm sure someone else would know better than me.

The remote start system is brand new, but ill check those relays out.. ( I also just called my installer, and he said that there is nothing in the system that would cause this type of behavior unless it only happened when using the remote start or while the alarm is armed. Since its happening with the remote start, and when just using the key (alarm disarmed), the remote start / alarm doesnt play a role)

The "slide switch" (as you called it, i think its actual name is "dimmer switch") i have replaced before... about a year ago, so i doubt its that, but ill definetely check it out.

Would the ignition switch cause this type of behavior?

Thanks...

Any other suggestions?

Muad'Dib said:

The remote start system is brand new, but ill check those relays out..

The "slide switch" (as you called it, i think its actual name is "dimmer switch") i have replaced before... about a year ago, so i doubt its that, but ill definetely check it out.

Thanks...

Any other suggestions?

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Yeah, what I said after him!!

Im sorry keeponjeepinon, but i somehow missed your post when i replied.. not sure how that happened.

Yes i do have a CPS, but usually a CPS problem will be fixed (temporarily) when you just unplug the thing and plug it back in...
I forgot to mention it in my main post, but i did try this as part of my diagnostic procedure in the parking lot of the grocery store. Didnt change anything.. the only thing that worked that time was the re-arrangement of the relays. The CPS is maybe 6 months old, so i dont think its that either ... but i could be wrong..

I hope 5-90 or Ecomike read this

Thanks

The "slide switch" (as you called it, i think its actual name is "dimmer switch") i have replaced before... about a year ago, so i doubt its that, but ill definetely check it out.

Click to expand...

Dimmer Switch?? You must have a different definition of that kind of switch than I DO. Call it what you want, but the ignition switch "slides as it makes contacts through the different positions ending in the spring loaded start position, as opposed to a toggle or rotory action type switch.

Would the ignition switch cause this type of behavior?

Click to expand...

Yes. I've run into this serveral times.

if you leave the key in the start position, it stays running, but once you let go (and the key rests in the on position) is when it dies.

Click to expand...

This makes me think you may have an intermittent ignition switch...

This makes me think you may have an intermittent ignition switch...

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x2

Southwest Chuck said:

Dimmer Switch?? You must have a different definition of that kind of switch than I DO. Call it what you want, but the ignition switch "slides as it makes contacts through the different positions ending in the spring loaded start position, as opposed to a toggle or rotory action type switch.

Click to expand...

I was reffering to it as a "dimmer switch" because this is what the dealer said it was some time ago.
I picked one up (not from the dealer but from the local schucks), its at the house ill post the part number..but im 100% sure the box says "dimmer switch". I definetly could be wrong, but my reference was really for my own good and not yours ... either way at least were on the same page.


Thanks for pointing me in the direction of the ignition switch, ill check that out!!

***EDIT***
Now that i read your post again, i think we ARE talking about two different things... The part im reffering too is at the other end of that rod lower on the steering column visible if you look up at it from underneath...
Hmm now that i read it for the third time, maybe we are talking about the same thing. .. blah .. ill look into both of them then Thanks

McQue said:

This makes me think you may have an intermittent ignition switch...

Click to expand...

But would it also cause the same symptoms with the remote start. Doesn't the remote start have a realy that bypasses the ignition switch when it starts?

lawsoncl said:

But would it also cause the same symptoms with the remote start. Doesn't the remote start have a realy that bypasses the ignition switch when it starts?

Click to expand...

Thats a good question.. ill ask my installer tomorrow.

I havent yet found out if the remote start alarm bypasses the ignition switch or not... i would assume yes, but i vaguely remember my installer telling me yesterday something about a bypass, and that it only applied to newer models. I wont find out for sure till monday.

On another note, i went ahead and picked up a ignition switch, and replaced my old one today. I was getting confused earlier in this thread when i was mistaking the switch for the dimmer switch. They both connect to a "rod" thats probably why i got thrown off. I went ahead and replaced the dimmer switch while i was in there since you have to remove the dimmer switch to remove the ignition switch (and since i already had one). The Dimmer switch kind of "sits" to the driver side of the steering column, the ignition switch uses the same bolt / stud, and "rests" on top of the steering column. If i didnt have my FSM, i wouldnt have even known it was there... its hard to see, and so is the wiring to it.

So here is the result... when i first went to start the jeep ( i have only been trying to start it manually) it did the exact same thing as before. I moved some relays around and it started again. Im really confused and honestly frustrated at this point since i just cant figure out whats doing this.
I have my kids this weekend, so i have been driving it alot today. It starts everytime right now, but when it starts the tach is at 0 RPM's and its barely barely running. Im very very suprised that it doesnt stumble... its like its not running. (I can get a video with sound if that would help). After about 5-8 seconds after starting it starts idleing at the level that im used to seeing with this Jeep.

Im clueless right now whats going on. I could really use some more help. I dont want to replace more parts on this thing that do not need to be replaced. Im not too upset about the ignition switch, it looked a little "used" but not burned up like some i have seen on here. I count replacing that as more of preventative maintenance then anything else.

What else could be going on... Im i avoiding the inevitable thinking that its not the fuel pump when it really is???

Could it be the CPS??

Thanks everyone for your valued time and advise. Its really appreciated.

I HAVE HAD THAT PROBLEM WITH IT STAYING STARTED. TRY CHECKING THE ELECTRONIC IDLE CONTROLLER SENSOR. IT COST ABOUT 45 DOLLERS AT AUTO ZONE. I HAVE REPLACED MINE TWICE. LOCTED CLOSE TO THE THROTTLE CABLE HAS 2 SMALL 4 OR 6 MM SCREWS HOLDING IT IN PLACE.

GOOD LUCK. I HOPE THIS HELPS

Ignition switch. Gassers don't stay running like diesels. Once the spark is cut on a gasser, it can't run....so obviously it is still getting spark, because your ignition switch is KAPUT!

I FORGOT TO MENTION THAT IF YOUR CHECK ENGINE LIGHT COMES ON TAKE IT TO AUTO ZONE. THEY HAVE ONE OF THOSE GADGETS THAT GIVE A CODE. THEN YOU WILL KNOW FOR SURE.

He has a renix. No codes in a renix.

The IAC is not more then a year old.
And i just replaced the ignition switch earlier today... did you read the whole thread???

The second to last post on the first page is where im at in this fiasco..

Could be a wiring problem. I'm still betting it is ignition switch related.

Maybe something is shorted down the line so it still thinks it's turned "on" even when the key is out.