Auto transmission bucks while cold, but runs fine after vehicle warms up. . .

I need to replace the clutch and power steering in my 92 5sp XJ, and since I work outside that's out until the spring. I've been looking for a newer XJ w/ the NP242 transfer case to use as a daily driver or generally less frequently fixed vehicle. I have an '04 Subaru WRX STi that can be my daily driver if it needs to be, but I prefer to put the miles on something else.

I went to look at a 98 XJ classic today, auto trans, looked like D35/D30 axles, with 155,000 miles on the odometer and with an engine that the owner told me was put in at 100,000 miles with 55,000 miles already on it. It has the full time 4wd option, which I don't see for sale very often. I went to check it out today, and got the guy to let me drive it with my plates (it's been off the road since September when his daughter got another car and had no plates). As far as the body went, it looked great on the outside. The only cancer it had was on the rear bumper, which will only be on temporarily anyway. The underbody was in prisitine shape, new exhaust, and no rust. The interior was in fair condition, meaning looked kind of poor for the year with generally dirty looking front seats and the steering wheel leather missing from the top. Originally they were asking $3500. I offered $2600 if I could drive it with my plates on it. So he (the father, whose name it was in) agreed, and we took it for a spin. After it warmed up, the engine ran great, and the full-time 4wd also worked great (could only test it on the street). Lots more power than I ever felt in my 92 with a rebuilt engine in it, that's for sure. Bu there's the catch--until it warmed up, the transmission bucked and wouldn't transfer full power to the wheels. Once it was warm, it ran with absolutely no problems. The only other issue was the airbag light was on. The owner said he had replaced the clockspring in the steering wheel and that som ewire had come loose on the bag. The spring made some noise as the wheel rotated, but centered fine. He said it needed lubed.

The first question is: what do you XJ geniuses make of the transmission issue? Some random guy at the house claimed it was a valve of some type that could be accessed by dropping the oil pan. At one point before it warmed up, it was doing this bucking, and he told me to floor it and that only mad eit less happy. Then it warmed up. No issue. What does this sound like, and would an otherwise desireable Jeep of this vintage and transfer case be worth dropping $2200 to $2500 for? What could I expect the transmission to cost if I found a suitable used one?

My girlfriend thinks I'm emotionally vested in it because of the transfer case. She may be right. I'm looking at it like this, so far: I paid almost $2K for a 92 XJ which feels like it has half the power (I think it may have had a non H.O. 4.0 put in before I got it) with the common NP231 in it. If the tranny makes it through the winter, I can swap it out myself in the spring. If it doesn't, I can add it to the line of Jeeps in the driveway and drive my car.

Let the opinions flow!

--wavingpine11

Sounds low on fluid, once the fluid warms up it the fluid expands enough to work properly. My truck does the same thing, due to a leaking seal that brings the fluid to just that level.
If the fluid isn't burnt smelling or overly dark, it should be OK. Take another look, check the tranny fluid cold in park after you run it through the gears, and if it's low that's the issue. Maybe bring a quart with you, ask the guy if you can throw that in it, and if it fixes the issue, you've got a decent XJ.
Also bear in mind that the tranny may have had some damage done by running low, if there is shinyness to the tranny fluid it's pretty well cooked.

NP242 doesn't last as long as the NP231, just an FYI.

Not really related, but...

Had a transmission rebuilt for a 79 Grand Prix. That damn thing would buck non stop when slowing down while off the throttle.

sounds like a lot of things wrong with that thing. I've been screwed by that kind of situation before, where the seller said it was just a little problem, needed something little, and it was not true at all. I bought a Honda del sol that the owner said made a slight nooise because it needed the throw out bearing replaced. turned out they had ran the trans dry and put some gear oil in for it to last long enough to sell it.

I'd be really wary of what the seller tells you, and unless you know him personally and trust everything he says, then expect for everything he tells you about that thing to be a lie unless he can prove it's not.

seeing as you can afford the scoobie you have, i would think you can swing a little more cash for peace of mind that your xj won't be a piece of crap once you get it home.

'98 Classic with 55,000 on the engine, 2600 bucks. Buy it! Especially if you have an extra grand or so laying around for a new tranny if that one ever goes.

Blaine B. said:

NP242 doesn't last as long as the NP231, just an FYI.

Click to expand...

Why is that? My plan for this one was going to be a mildy upgraded daily driver/dirt trail/anow machine. Probably would stick with 235/75-15 BFG AT's from my '92 for rubber and just get front and rear bumpers with recovery points. As I was considering how to work this into my plans, I realized that it would be nice to have a relatively nice XJ that was also a reasonable DD. Since I put the Aussie in the rear of the 92, I can't power around corners anymore, and this hurts me because there's a lot of traffic where I live, and it pays to have the ability to dart when those inevitable little gaps present themselves.

I don't know. Just the NP242 is weaker. I don't have one.

Although the added benefit of full time outweighs that. At least it would for me if I had one.

So the girl who owned the Jeep must have just gotten out of college. When I showed up yesterday, she left to go to the mall to shop like a good little Jersey girl and left her dad to show me the car, with a random brother-in-law thrown into the mix. I had brought along a printout of the KBB values for private party transactions, and had made my initial offer of $2600 based on how the engine ran and then condition of the body and interior. The listed value for fair condition was a little over $2600. Based on the good condition of everything visible outside and the crap condition of the interior, that seemed reasonable. When I got to drive it, I tried to use the obvious mechanical problem as a talking point. I wasn't being rude, just pointing out that it had been sitting for two months already, and it clearly had a problem that I couldn't fix except for by simply swapping in another transmission that was still good. The condition of the Jeep, then, since it had serious driveability problems, was poor, with consideration given to the otherwise great engine performance and body.

So I offered up to $2350 and the dad was like, "I can't sell this for less than $2500, which is what my daughte rwants for it. If it were mine, I could go lower." So he tries to raise her on the cell phone. No go. She's too busy shopping to pick up. Even though she wants to sell her Jeep, told me the price wasn't firm, etc. Now, she had listed the vehicle for $3500 on one of the autotrader type websites, clearly mor ethan it was worth even without the tranny issue. Eventually, I say, "Look, you're trying to tell me that this will make my 40 minute drive no problem. So if you won't sell it to me for $2350, I'll take it for $2500 with written promise that if it fails to make it home because of this mechanical problem, then you will sell it back to me." Well, that kind of irritated him. My girlfriend said it was an unreasonable request later. So the brother-in-law and the dad start teaming up on me, telling me they know a guy who works at a Jeep stealership who says it's this simple problem with some easily fixable transmission problem and I get the feeling that they're trying to make me feel somehow inferior because I wasn't getting how easy it would be for me to take care of these little problems. The father went so far as to tell me that the airbag would still deploy properly even though the light was on and some wire was just disconnected.

So I'm listening to all of this, trying to be as level and inoffensive as possible, but not believing a word he said about either thing because, well here was my logic: 1) He had done the brakes when needed, and the clockspring (and not too well either, since the steering wheel sounded like a tree creaking in the wind as I turned it, plus he messed up the air bag connection, if that's even why the light was on). 2) It was a car his very own daughter commuted in until September. 3) Thus, since he was the primary caretaker of the vehicle, if these issues were easily fixed, since he hopefully wants to assure the safety of his daughter, he would have fixed them like the brakes. So my assessment was that he was a hack of a repairman and at least the brakes worked fine, but that I seriously doubted that these were half-day shade tree fixes. So they basically tried to take me for a ride, and I basically was trying to figure out if the vehicle was worth my money since it was exactly the commuter I was looking for (minus the obvious problems).

Later last night, after posting my initial question, I called the daughter to try to clear things up. Instead of the soft-spoken girl I spoke to the day before, I got this angry girl who seemed really taken aback by my offer, and told me that the two of us had never discussed this lower price. I pointed out that she knew I was coming, and left all negotiating power happi8ly with her father, and that if I had taken it for $2500, she'd have $2500 and there'd be no further words about it. I pointed out that her father had told me that $2500 was the lowest she'd be willing to take, and she kept mentioning this $3500 figure which was her initial asking price. So then she said that she didn't even know if she'd let it go for $2500, and that it had only been for sale since September (the father told me people had called but not one had ever showed up before!) and that she was going to wait.

Overall, I think everyone lost out in this situation. I wanted the Jeep, but wasn't going to screw myself by paying what she wanted, and her dad wanted it out of the driveway (he made that clear, and didn't even haggle when I offered him the $2600 since I hadn't driven it yet and didn't know the tranny was screwed). So I got no Jeep, they got no money, and the Jeep? Well, who is going to buy it when it has an obvious problem? For above book value? I don't get it. So I think the whole situation was just pathetic. They wanted to negotiate based on a fictional Jeep that I wasn't looking at. I'd still take it for $2300 after hearing the couple of opinions that were tossed back at me here, but I think the opportunity is lost because of pride issues on the Jersey side of the line. And the funny thing is, I think I offered a very fair price for it, and was calm and respectful throughout the process. So that's the end of that story unless it's not. But I think it is. :dunno:

Sigh.

Blaine B. said:

I don't know. Just the NP242 is weaker. I don't have one.

Although the added benefit of full time outweighs that. At least it would for me if I had one.

Click to expand...

That's how I was looking at it. My 92 5 speed always spun out when it was wet out until the locker went in. And there are times when the roads are not 2wd friendly but not quite locked 4wd friendly due to the level of traction. Seemed perfect to me as a commuter and family trip taker. But anyway, all seems to have broken down in the negotation process so I'll check back in another month when no one else has been stupid enough to buy it. I mean, if you were looking for a DD (not as a Jeep freak willing to take on the odds for a piece that fit your general wants), would you buy one that needed a new tranny?

have u tried lucas automatic transmission additive?

I'd try anything if I could actually get them to sell it to me!

Given the questionable mechanical talents of the father here, I'd wonder if he simply put the wrong oil in the tranny. It's entirely possible that a simply fluid change would fix it. The "easily fixable problem" they might have been trying to say was that it was a bad shift solenoid, which is pretty simply to get to by dropping the pan. I'd doubt that was the problem though as the bucking stopped once it warmed up. But, what can you do with those stuck up Jersey girls, eh?

Yeah, I'm bummed about the whole deal. I keep trying to figure out if I did the right thing by walking away, even if I felt it was overpriced given the transmission issue, since it was almost exactly what i was looking for otherwise, and wanted, but did not need, to use it as a DD.

Little update. . . I found a reasonable mileage (126K) used AW4 transmission from an 87 with an NP242 still attached for $400. My understanding from poking around here is that the transmission should bolt up and run no problem to the 98, but that different years will have a different output shaft, including this 1987/1998 swap, thus I can't just put the transmission on and use the current NP242 transfer case. However, since the 87 set has an NP242, I can simply use that and it gives me the functionality in a commuter that I'm looking for. Good enough. So now what about the Jeep I couldn't buy last week? I called the girl again and this time she had "shown it to a few other people," (meaning no one I'm thinking) but was now willing to sell it for the $2500 I was debating with her father. Given the whole deal will cost me $2900 plus transfer fees, taxes, and my labor, I think I'm going to buy it. It'll be fun to see how long the current tranny lives. And it will be fun to already have the second one laying there ready to put into it in the spring. I guess patience solves many problems. And speaking to people nicely. I never burned any bridges, just annoyed them with my pointed questions and clear observations (says me, anyway. . .). So if I pick it up tomorrow, I'm sure my enthusiasm will be pouring out here soon!

I sounds like a fair deal. I would take the pan off the trans and flush the fluid and see how it goes

I picked up that 1998 XJ yesterday! :clap:

It has the 4.0 with the NP242 case. I did get it for $2500 after all. I discovered the back-up lights weren't working, so I think the neutral safety switch may need to be replaced, or if I'm lucky just a fuse for the lights. Curiously, the transmission gave me no issues on the way home (40 minute ride) nor did it when driving it to work this morning, after sitting overnight. So I checked the fluid, with the vehicle on, warmed up, and in neutral, and it looked very nice and fresh but was overfilled. I'm suspecting that the owner threw in some additional fluid without checking the level after he couldn't sell it to me last weekend. I assume that there's an overfill plug that I can take out to let it drain to the correct level, but I haven't gotten to that yet. Overall, I'm very happy with it after driving it home. It was raining last night so I got to check out the full-time 4wd. It definitely has better traction in full-time 4hi than in 2wd, but you can still get wheelspin if you give it too much throttle, which I couldn't duplicate in 4hi part-time on-road. I guess with three open differentials, there's still plenty of room for slippage in that configuration. I'm thinking about putting limited slips in the front and rear to counter that. But not right now--my 92 needs a lot of TLC in the form of a power steering pump and a new clutch to make it decently driveable, so when the money's available, it'll go there first, since that's my off-road rig, and it's currently. . . generally off the road (still drivable, but not so fun with no power steering). I hope to finally get pictures of my Jeeps to post when I get access to a digital camera. Until then, I'll work on fixing the issues I can to get it inspected here.

Sounds good! If all else fails you can pull the trans cooler line off the rad and drain some fluid out that way. Overfilled is just as bad as underfilled. How over is it?

When in AWD, the jeep can still be a one tire fire, IE if one tire slips on one axle the other 3 stop, hence the ability to spin one tire. The tractive force is a lot higher with all 4 tires being powered compared to just 2 though. In 4x4 HI the rotation of front and rear driveshafts are locked together so you would have to spin one front tire and one rear tire.

If you are seriosuly getting wheelspin in full time 4x4, I would buy new tires, athough with the history of this rig it might just be your trans slipping

Blaine B. said:

NP242 doesn't last as long as the NP231, just an FYI.

Click to expand...

the 242 will last just as long as the 231, they share a lot of the same internal components, like bearings and the chain. All of the wear parts are virtually identical.

I'll drain the excess fluid ASAP once I get home from work. It was way over the full mark. I have a tranny and NP242 from an '87 XJ w/126,000 miles on it lined up (for $400) to pick up tomorrow that I would install in the spring if I needed to. My understanding is that the spline count is different so I can't just swap out the transmission. I figure by springtime I'd know what was up with the 98's tranny--so hopefully it lasts through the winter. But first things first--correct the fluid level and then investigate whether or not I need a neutral safety switch or just a fuse to correct the no back-up lights issue. I plan to run JCR front and rear bumpers eventually so I can get some additional crash insurance and good recovery points, then upgrading to a good limited slip set-up to make it an excellent on-any-road/light off-road vehicle. I have a lot of goals between the 92 and the 98 now, and hopefully I can squeeze enough money out of my budget to keep them both moving forward.

Does anyone have a favorite limited slip set-up? The worst this Jeep is going to see is logging trails and wintry northeast roads. I was thinking about going with a Detroit gear-type limited slip to keep it very streetable.