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SYE on "budget" lifts

R

Rod Knee

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Grand Jct., CO
The link below says you need a SYE/double cardon DS even with a 2 inch lift. Is the author objective, or is he in jeep parts sales?



http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/Suspension_Steering_Axles_and_Brakes/Budget_Lift.htm
 
it depends on the year and then it depends on the jeep itself too. some xj's of the same year will get vibes at 2 inches and some won't. at 2 inches i have heard that your jeep could need a SYE. like i said just depends on the jeep. i know a lot of people with 4.5 inches of lift that don't use them but probably should, myself included.
 
Cornflake said:
it depends on the year and then it depends on the jeep itself too. some xj's of the same year will get vibes at 2 inches and some won't. at 2 inches i have heard that your jeep could need a SYE. like i said just depends on the jeep. i know a lot of people with 4.5 inches of lift that don't use them but probably should, myself included.
Click to expand...

Interesting that this guy says even if you don't have noticeable vibes you could still be trashing your TC. I just put the rear part of a 2 inch lift and have low pitched rumbling and some very discreet vibes between 35 and 42 mph.
 
My 2000 came from the factory with vibes!!
 
bs link. his example is an xj with six inches of lift. also xjs came with a 1 inch lift called the "up country package" with no change in driveline, its just not a valid statement to say its going to DESTROY your case.

.02
 
Last edited:
i hadn't gone to the clink as when i stated that some people have vibes as little as 2 inches. i have run into a few that have at even budget lift heights. it is b.s. that it would destroy your t-case at 2 inches. like i said, i and many others at 4.5 inches don't have SYE's and have been fine. but there are some at 3 inches that can definately use a SYE. just depends on your jeep.
 
Cornflake said:
i hadn't gone to the clink as when i stated that some people have vibes as little as 2 inches. i have run into a few that have at even budget lift heights. it is b.s. that it would destroy your t-case at 2 inches. like i said, i and many others at 4.5 inches don't have SYE's and have been fine. but there are some at 3 inches that can definately use a SYE. just depends on your jeep.
Click to expand...

Well, you are fortunate to have a pre-96 XJ with the housing on the Tcase output shaft. My rig is a bit of a perfect storm for post-lift vibes...96+, C8.25 axle, and 242 TCase. I have to say that article caught my attention as I am preparing to address some vibes I have after not really expecting them from what I had read. Maybe I'd be just wasting time by merely shimming to drop the pinion back down as I was planning on doing. On the other hand I'd never read any other first hand accounts of tcase failure in the absence of any symptoms, and I've been doing a lot of reading.
 
This guy's shilling for someone (tom woods?)...

My big questions:

Does anyone know if the 231 output bearing changed from 96-97? AFAIK the only driveline difference from t-case back is axleshaft spline count.

For a guy who's outwardly so objective, he glosses over TONS by saying "old ones/new ones." As if there's some mystical, voodoo difference between a 231 from '95 and one from '98.

The only XJs I know of that made it to production with vibes were 2000s, which came with the t-case dropped from the factory. 2000s had LP fronts and other BS didn't they?



While I can accept his general statement that DS vibes aren't good for your output bearing, he's generally nuts.

If the problem was as bad as he said, we'd all know people who'd trashed their TCs from it, and a carrier bearing mod would be as popular as the hack n tap...
 
Lets clear this up a little!The article seems to bash a SYE kit made by one company,I know,I tried this same kit 3 months after buying my 2000.While it was better,I was not satisfied and bought the JB Conversions kit.7 years later I have never done anything but keep everything lubricated.
Yes,there was a MAJOR change in mid-96 that "eliminated" an entire bearing.The XJ's original slip yoke is a "wet" yoke with a "loose" fit designed to be supported by the bushing in the tailshaft housing.Remove the support and combine that with a "loose" fit yoke and you get vibes.
DC did issue a TSB that included several fixes such as a "transfer case drop" and the shown "vibration dampner"
 
RCP Phx said:
Yes,there was a MAJOR change in mid-96 that "eliminated" an entire bearing.The XJ's original slip yoke is a "wet" yoke with a "loose" fit designed to be supported by the bushing in the tailshaft housing.Remove the support and combine that with a "loose" fit yoke and you get vibes.
DC did issue a TSB that included several fixes such as a "transfer case drop" and the shown "vibration dampner"
Click to expand...


Awesome to know... and now that I think of it I did know that there was a difference in the tailcone (and in price for sye kits -96 and 96+) so I feel kind of stupid for not putting them together.

Not exactly a voodoo magic difference, eh?
 
well, I have to agree with the guy. I have a late build 96, 4.0, 231tc, 8.25 rear. I did a 2 inch spacer up front, and a 2" Black Diamond AAL in the rear. 30x9.50's. VIBES OUT THE A$$!!!! Bad vibes around 30-40, feels bad, sounds bad. Can't be good for the drivetrain! I am waiting for my RE H&T to come in, I'll be putting a front d/s in the rear to deal with the problem.
 
citRon said:
well, I have to agree with the guy. I have a late build 96, 4.0, 231tc, 8.25 rear. I did a 2 inch spacer up front, and a 2" Black Diamond AAL in the rear. 30x9.50's. VIBES OUT THE A$$!!!! Bad vibes around 30-40, feels bad, sounds bad. Can't be good for the drivetrain! I am waiting for my RE H&T to come in, I'll be putting a front d/s in the rear to deal with the problem.
Click to expand...

I have no doubt you can get vibes at 2 inches lift. My rig is a case in point. The statement of the author that really caught my attention was the claim that even when you don't notice any vibes, your TC is still subject to damage.
 
citRon said:
well, I have to agree with the guy. I have a late build 96, 4.0, 231tc, 8.25 rear. I did a 2 inch spacer up front, and a 2" Black Diamond AAL in the rear. 30x9.50's. VIBES OUT THE A$$!!!! Bad vibes around 30-40, feels bad, sounds bad. Can't be good for the drivetrain! I am waiting for my RE H&T to come in, I'll be putting a front d/s in the rear to deal with the problem.
Click to expand...

Did you try shimming your pinion angle prior to deciding to go to an SYE? If so, did you try shimming the pinion up (thick side of shim in back) or down (thick side forward)?
 
Rod Knee said:
Did you try shimming your pinion angle prior to deciding to go to an SYE? If so, did you try shimming the pinion up (thick side of shim in back) or down (thick side forward)?
Click to expand...

no, no shimmy shim shim. would simply adjusting the pinion angle with shims do the trick. -last YJ I built with the OME lift (2") had shims installed, and it vibed too, so I figured shimmy no worky without sye.
 
citRon said:
no, no shimmy shim shim. would simply adjusting the pinion angle with shims do the trick. -last YJ I built with the OME lift (2") had shims installed, and it vibed too, so I figured shimmy no worky without sye.
Click to expand...

I forget whether the yj is coil over or under, but did you point the pinion up or down?
 
For whatever it's worth, I have nearly 6.5" on my '91, -and I have had to do some "tweaking" to keep the vibes down.

Initially, I had 12 degrees at the TC, and around 4 degrees at the pinion, -it was terrible. So, knowing I am someday going to go SYE (already have the kit), -but not settling with my turdy-five rearend, -I wanted to put off installing the SYE until I get my 9" rear done (so I don't have to have a XJ front driveline lengthened just to get me by on the 35 until my 9" is done).

So, I'm putting it off, -and did some fiddle-fartin' around with the pinion angle to keep it driveable.

Here's what I did, -I went pinion UP almost 9 degrees by milling some angle into my 1" blocks in the rear, (going well past zero degrees) -and now I have darn near equal angles top and bottom. When I drove it I was really suprised, -hardly ANY vibes to speak of. I realize this isn't a long term solution, -but it may help those guys out who have a nasty vibe and need the thing driveable, -but don't have the beans to do an SYE right away.

Degree shims are pretty affordable (rather than milling blocks), and would sure seem to buy a person some time.

The comments about bad vibes destroying things, -IT DOES, -believe it!! The forces placed on the parts due to u-joints being out of phase is tremedous. It is definitely something you should address if you have a nasty vibe.

I am not an advocate of running a pinion that is pointed toward the sky either, (past zero degrees), but on my 35, -I really could give a crap since it will soon be replaced with the "9". Once the 9 is in, then I'll do the SYE and CV driveline.

But, for the time being, it's my daily driver, -and it is suprisingly smooth (a little brr-brr vibe at around 48 mph but not serious at all). At 55-70, she's smooth as butter.

I can't wait to get my 9 done!!
 
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