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Dual Battery System?

frankart3@hotmail

NAXJA Forum User
Location
wv
Can anyone point me in the right direction? I've got a 99 Cherokee and I'm going on a little adventure with it. I wanted to hook up a receptacle so I can charge a laptop or cell phone and stuff like that. So I need to hook up a converter for the receptacle, and i probably need another battery right? Well I dont know much about anything in regards to my jeep. Any diagrams or links on the best and EASIEST way to do this would be much apreciated.

PS. I dont want the batteries to explode.

-Frank:viking:
 
Go to the dealership and order battery tray for a Diesel XJ, any year. You're gonna have to get a short air intake system, like a cone filter. fit the battery tray in on the drivers side so it mirrors the pass. battery tray. then hook the 0gauge wires off that batter and into the wiring of the original battery. I;ve been thinking about doing this for a while. My brother runs this set up in his tow trucks.

Instead of ording a stock battery tray you can also get a universal tray from Autozone for 7$. they are lower profile so you can fit a way taller battery like I did. I'm running a battery form walmart, one of the yellow ones, 1000 cold cranking amps. runs good...
 
frankart3@hotmail said:
Can anyone point me in the right direction? I've got a 99 Cherokee and I'm going on a little adventure with it. I wanted to hook up a receptacle so I can charge a laptop or cell phone and stuff like that. So I need to hook up a converter for the receptacle, and i probably need another battery right? Well I dont know much about anything in regards to my jeep. Any diagrams or links on the best and EASIEST way to do this would be much apreciated.

PS. I dont want the batteries to explode.

-Frank:viking:

Put this in Mod Tech for you, since that's where it belongs...

As far as your original question goes - if you're not going to ask it to do too much, there's no real reason you'll need a second battery (unless you're going to run a lot of electric with the power off.)

If you have 12-volt chargers for everything, you can usually find auxiliary power points in auto houses and marine supply houses - although I do tend to prefer the marine supply version (comparable in cost, but they're made a bit better, and just about all of them come with covers or caps. And, they're usually in packaging that can be mounted to any handy surface.) Added power points can be hardwired directly to the vehicle (which is what I usually do,) or they can be had where several power points are in a block, and they are all supplied from the lighter socket. N.B. - Do not use auxiliary power points for the cigar lighter! Even if they did work (they usually don't,) they'll end up melting down from the heat. However, the cigar lighter socket can be safely used as a power point without issues.

N.B. - the cigar lighter is usually only powered ON when the key is in the ACC or RUN position, and will not be powered in LOCK, OFF, or START. Just so you know...

If you do not have 12VDC power supplies for everything, get a small inverter. To figure what rating you'll need, simply get the power supplies for everything you plan to use. Add up the input power (Watts) or current (Amperes) ratings - not the output ratings (both of them should be listed.)

If they're all in Watts, you can simply add 15-25% to the total number and get an inverter at least that bit.

If figures are listed in Amperes, then "volts x amps = watts" - you'll have your answer that way. Most inverters are listed in Watts, and have two ratings: a "continuous duty" rating (the power it's rated to put out 24x7,) and a "surge" rating. The "surge" rating is usually twice the "continuous" rating, and is there for "startup surges," if you run anything with a motor. If all you're running is electronics, you won't need the surge rating (electric motors tend to need a "spike" of power when they start up, electronics do not.)

Smaller inverters (say, 1000 Watts or less) will usually have a lighter plug on the end of the supply cable - which can be inserted into the socket, or the plug can be cut off and the inverter hardwired and hard-mounted. Inverters larger than that are usually hardwired to begin with, and should not be run off of a lighter socket.

Small inverters are commonly available - up to about 400W should be easy. I've had good luck with Xantrex inverters for light-duty electronics. You shouldn't have any trouble finding a small inverter (200-400W) that will have two outlets on the face - and the inverters with the USB socket for 5V power are also becoming common (you'd have two 110VAC sockets and the USB +5VDC socket, usually.)

So, unless you're going to get silly with electronics, there's no real need for you to do the second battery and such - you should be fine with what you have. If you find you need additional capacity, I would suggest uprating your alternator before adding a battery anyhow - theoretically, your alternator should be able to power everything with about 10% to spare at full output, and your battery would then be held in reserve.
 
Thanks for the reply 5-90!

I will probably take your advice to a T. I looked at some xantrex inverters and they are all pretty affordable. I am probably going to get a 400-120VAC and possibly upgrade the alternator like you said. And I will probably hardwire it right in.

Thanks for the fast reply, and for all the time you put into it! It cleared up a lot of stuff.

-Frank
 
Boatwrench said:
I like the diesel tray idea, but you probably should have a battery isolater.

Try Here:
http://www.jeepersandcreepers.com/client/page.php

or here:
http://www.wranglernw.com/default.aspx?SkinID=2

I've used both these evndors and have never had any problems.

Good luck,
Tom

Definitely an isolator, on a second battery. I just didn't bring it up since I didn't feel it was actually needed, with the information given (that could change, however...)

I also offer solenoids to be used as isolators - I've had good experience with them on heavy trucks and industrial equipment, so they're probably overbuilt for us. Just another option (I find solenoids to be more reliable than solid-state isolators anyhow, they're available with higher current ratings, and they're physically smaller anyhow.)
 
how much do you need an isolator on a second battery?? and why?? wheneveri have run dual batts(racecars, offroad, or diesels) i have never run an isolator. any help to do this as cheap as possible would also help me as i have a 6000w/12000w inverter for my welder. and use my laptop and quite a few electronics...
 
harwood39 said:
how much do you need an isolator on a second battery?? and why?? wheneveri have run dual batts(racecars, offroad, or diesels) i have never run an isolator. any help to do this as cheap as possible would also help me as i have a 6000w/12000w inverter for my welder. and use my laptop and quite a few electronics...

Especially if you have high-draw electrics that you run with the engine OFF, an isolator allows you to charge your secondary battery with the engine running, but be able to run accessories off the thing with the engine OFF. Also, with the engine OFF, you have "isolated" your accessory electrics (which should be wired to the secondary battery,) and you'll be leaving your starting battery alone - which can help you. If you run the accessory battery flat, you've still got your starting battery to start with and get home.

There are a couple of ways to go with an isolator - you can get a solid-state switching package, which is readily available, easy to wire, and rather large (size depends on the throughput rating of the isolator, but most I've seen are 6"x6"x3" or larger.) Also, since SS isolator switching is fully automatic, you don't really have "override" options. And, being solid-state electronics, they can get spendy and require air to cool them.

You can also use a constant-duty solenoid switch, which is what I use and offer. You have to go to a bit more effort to wire them, but you can also set up a couple of overrides - and override OFF (to allow you to start with a flat bank of secondaries, and cut them in for charging manually while cruising,) and an override ON (to allow you to start from your secondaries, if your primary battery should go Tango Uniform on you.) Also, the solenoid is rather smaller (about the size of the average fist,) not as sensitive to heat, and available in high current ratings (I carry 85A and 200A ratings at a 100% duty cycle.)

If you want to know more, and want to see examples of wiring the things up, you can check my website - I think I still need to do a proper datasheet, but the instructions for wiring (all ways) can be had there as a .pdf, and there's a picture of the thing in my hand (I wear a size 8 glove) to give an idea of physical size. And, if you've got any more specific questions than that, there's a link to email me on the site as well. I'd be happy to answer you, but if we wander any farther into "sales talk," we'll have to take this backchannel anyhow. There's a link to my site in my sig.
 
I am using this for more than a year.

http://www.yandina.com/c150Info.htm

Before that I used an 85 AMP solonoid and an oil pressure switch to close the contact when the engine is running. With the engine off and the oil pressure at '0' the contacts in the solonoid break to provide the isolation.

The Combiner 150 (Yandina) allso does that plus it could charge two batteries of different types and double as paralell switch to connect both batteries if necessary.

590, :wave1: How are your headlamp wire loom coming? I need one but I do not want to make it myself.
 
techno1154 said:
I am using this for more than a year.

http://www.yandina.com/c150Info.htm

Before that I used an 85 AMP solonoid and an oil pressure switch to close the contact when the engine is running. With the engine off and the oil pressure at '0' the contacts in the solonoid break to provide the isolation.

The Combiner 150 (Yandina) allso does that plus it could charge two batteries of different types and double as paralell switch to connect both batteries if necessary.

590, :wave1: How are your headlamp wire loom coming? I need one but I do not want to make it myself.

Working on it! I'm hoping to be able to order production parts soon, and recall my prototypes for testing. I still can't really give a date for production, but it's gotten a lot closer...

Oh - and you can use either an oil pressure ("Hobbs") switch to close the contacts on the solenoid, or use a "Hot in RUN" lead from the ignition switch. I prefer the latter - since I don't like running any sort of plumbing I don't really have to (and, for an isolator/solenoid, you don't really have to.) Having the Hobbs switch also complicates the wiring a bit, and you don't really need that, either. Using the lead from the ignition switch, you don't have to supply an extra power lead to the switch, and thence to the solenoid. Just run the lead to the solenoid, and make sure it's got a good ground on the other side.
 
ok, now i understand it. So coul i just use a battery switch to connect and disconnect the battery for charging instead of a fancy solenoid set up?? I have a few laying around from my racecars...
 
harwood39 said:
ok, now i understand it. So coul i just use a battery switch to connect and disconnect the battery for charging instead of a fancy solenoid set up?? I have a few laying around from my racecars...

What's the throughput rating of the switch? If it's high enough, it should be no trouble. You just have to remember to turn the thing on and off as needed...

An isolator or a solenoid isolator is simply meant to automate the process.
 
its a high throughput switch, cant remember the rating off hand but it wasnt cheap. ie $50. It was on my roadrace car as the main battery cutoff switch.
 
harwood39 said:
its a high throughput switch, cant remember the rating off hand but it wasnt cheap. ie $50. It was on my roadrace car as the main battery cutoff switch.

Probably about 100A or so, I think that's what most of them are rated for (not for the starter circuit, but for everything else.)

Figure your maximum alternator output less about 30A is the sort of rating you need (as I recall, it takes about 30A to run all the engine management electronics and fuel injection componentry.)

The only catch I can really see is the one I mentioned earlier - you have to remember to switch the thing manually. If you can do that consistently, you're golden (you have to remember to turn the thing ON to charge the battery, and turn it OFF to make sure the two batteries don't discharge each other...)
 
Ya. I can remember that step. An extra step in turning something on and off is normal for me. i still look for the switch for my glow plugs since i replaced my deisel with my xj... I had a manual switch for them in my 6.5td chevy. And in my civic i had this bat switch, so it wont be anything new. And i have never had a problem with a bat draining another, unless i fried one.
 
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