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The MAN keepin' me down

xxxj-va

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Richmond, VA
Well, it finally happenned. officer said there was a 22" f&r limit for gross weight < 4500lbs. in the peoples rupublic of virginia and I am at 27" ergo a summons. Any advice on this? Apparently there is a 28" loophole if your gross vehicle weight is <4500 AND you are registered with the DMV as a "truck"

Thanks in advance...

Pete
 
Not sure but I think your GVRW is higher than the 4500 pounds stated. Pretty sure they'd have to produce info from Chrysler stating that it was under it for court and I don't think that excists. Five adults, all fluids filled and any others stuff they throw in brings it up 100 to 400 more than that, depending on what you read. Check that sticker on your door right below the latch, should be located there. I can barely make out the 46 and the rest is worn off.
 
4900 on the vehicle door, 6000 on my registration...but my registration doesn't say "truck" it says "sport utility"
 
Please explain

For us uninformed, what is an f&r limit.:confused: On my '85 the gvrw 4333lbs on the sticker.
 
From the Va. site.... http://www.vsp.state.va.us/safety.htm

"No person shall drive on a public highway any motor vehicle registered as a truck if it has been modified by alteration of its altitude from the ground to the extent that its bumpers, measured to any point on the lower edge of the main horizontal bumper bar, exclusive of any bumper guards, do not fall within the limits specified herein for its gross vehicle weight rating category. The front bumper height of trucks whose gross vehicle weight ratings are 4,500 pounds or less shall be no less than 14 inches and no more than 28 inches, and their rear bumper height shall be no less than 14 inches and no more than 28 inches. The front bumper height of trucks whose gross vehicle weight ratings are 4,501 pounds to 7,500 pounds shall be no less than 14 inches and no more than 29 inches, and their rear bumper height shall be no less than 14 inches and no more than 30 inches. The front bumper height of trucks whose gross vehicle weight ratings are 7,501 pounds to 15,000 pounds shall be no less than 14 inches and no more than 30 inches, and their rear bumper height shall be no less than 14 inches and no more than 31 inches. Bumper height limitations contained in this section shall not apply to trucks with gross vehicle weight ratings in excess of 15,000 pounds. For the purpose of this section, "truck" includes pickup and panel trucks, and "gross vehicle weight ratings" means manufacturer's gross vehicle weight ratings established for that vehicle as indicated by a number, plate, sticker, decal, or other device affixed to the vehicle by its manufacturer.



In the absence of bumpers, and in cases where bumper heights have been lowered, height measurements under the foregoing provisions of this section shall be made to the bottom of the frame rail. However, if bumper heights have been raised, height measurements under the foregoing provisions of this section shall be made to the bottom of the main horizontal bumper bar.



No vehicle shall be operated on a public highway if it has been modified by any means so as to raise its body more than three inches, in addition to any manufacturer's spacers and bushings, above the vehicle's frame rail or manufacturer's attachment points on the frame rail."





Law actually reads: GVWR >4500 28" front and rear... which means a Cherokee (panel wagon) could have 28" to the bottom of the bumpers, as long as it doesn't gross 4500 lbs, and then it would have to meet the law for THAT class.... 29".


Change out the front and rear bumpers for after market pieces. After that is completed, technically(see above), he is required to take the measurement from the vertical part of the frame under the vehicle..... if he is familiar with the letter of that law. I carry it in the glove box w/ me to explain it to them when I'm stopped.

Note that law enforcement is not charged w/ interpreting the law, so when you get to court, explain that your bumpers have been replaced with aftermarket parts and that the officer should have taken a measurement from your frame rail....which by the way (present exhibit A at this time.....a picture snapped of the framerail in question with a readable tape reading under 28") "I have a picture to show the court."
 
I don't know Hoss, I guessed wrong the first time but I'm pretty sure he means "front and rear" height limit of 22 inches that he's been tagged for.

Nice job Stryker! To play the devil's advocate though, "truck" is the term used through out and he stated that he's registered as a Sport Utility. Was there any distinction between these two descriptions?
 
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Sounds like I've run into the problem once or twice, eh?
:)

You gotta educate the MAN every once in awhile....or at least beat him at his own game. I contribute to SEMA in the aid to their lobbying fund .

I used to live in Maryland, which was about to outlaw any lift. Thanks to SEMA's lobbying, the State Troopers there abandoned their effort to influence the governing body to install stricter guidelines on vehicle modifications.

"Maryland Withdraws Raised Vehicle Regulation - 1999


The specialty equipment parts industry and Maryland 4x4 enthusiasts were relieved by the decision of the Maryland State Police (MSP) to withdraw a proposed regulation that would have banned certain combinations of aftermarket equipment and established tight restrictions on the amount a vehicle’s suspension and body could be raised.

The MSP cited the detailed technical and legal arguments provided by the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) and the opposition of vehicle hobbyists and affected businesses as the primary reasons for declining to take further regulatory action at this time.

SEMA was surprised at the severity of the Maryland proposal after having worked closely with the MSP in the past to fashion fair and reasonable regulations. If promulgated, the proposed regulation would have prohibited a body or suspension lift that exceeded 2 inches and banned tires larger than those originally installed by the vehicle manufacturer or a manufacturer upgrade size. The proposal also sought to ban the combination of body and suspension lift. SEMA referred to the lack of engineering evaluation or safety data that would have necessitated restrictive raised vehicle regulations.

In its comments to Maryland regulators, SEMA noted, "The MSP appears concerned with safety considerations from the standpoint of both stability (i.e. rollover) and vehicle override/underride. However, the MSP provides no data which suggests these concerns are warranted. Meanwhile data available through the relevant federal agencies and an opinion of the high court of Maryland indicate the regulations are not necessary."

Steve McDonald, SEMA director of state relations commented, "Reasonable alterations are necessary and useful to provide improved clearance for on-/off-road capability as well as to accommodate heavy loads, larger wheels and improved suspension, particularly in off-road circumstances. Reasonable vehicle lift also allows improved water clearance of the interior compartment when launching watercraft from trailers and in fording water while off-road. We are pleased that the MSP ultimately recognized the severity of the proposal and the burdens it would have placed on raised vehicle owners without actually improving safety."

MSP officials said that they may choose to pursue some type of raised vehicle regulation in the future and that SEMA would be invited to participate in formulating any proposal" -
http://www.enjoythedrive.com/content/?id=8095 (see legislative issues)

I've seen it in action, man. I believe in arming them with the funds that they need to keep the hobby for those of us who responsibly lift our vehicles.
 
Stryker you rock...but it all hinges on the XJ being a "truck" how do I argue that? You say panel wagon....that legalease? Great info man but im still nervous :)

P
 
xxxj-va said:
Stryker you rock...but it all hinges on the XJ being a "truck" how do I argue that? You say panel wagon....that legalease? Great info man but im still nervous :)

P

The first statute at the site is for mini trucks....
So they can't lower them or drive around with the hydraulic shocks/bags cocked.

The second statute covers vehicle lifts. The Cherokee has a truck-like uniframe, and with solid axles, it should be a shoe-in for a "truck".

The only other mass-produced "car" that EVER featured a solid axle was the early years of the " Jeep"/AMC Eagle wagon.....before it went to independent suspension front.

The XJ was so close to truck, it easily lent itself to the creation of the Comanche sibling.

By the way, the way to beat the ticket (you did get one, right?) is to install the bumpers (something you needed after all :) ) and take a picture of a tape measure under the chassis to court... You caught all that....right? :D :D
 
Yep, its over 4500, so I got 29" 2 to spare. Solid axle, judge look at the comanche, not a body on frame like a pickup, but a uniframe with rails, body etc...I'll rehearse. Thanks again. Im gonna beat this :)
 
Read through the vehicle code, starting with the index, to locate the definitions for "truck" and "sport utility." You may find that the vehicle code doesn't define "sport utility," in which case you argue that it's a truck based on its physical characteristics. If there is a definition for "sport utility", then the applicable height limit would be the one that specifies it applies to sport utilities, or a catchall provision (they usually state something like all vehicles not otherwise provided for). If there's no specified limit for sport utilities, and there's no catchall, then there's no limit applicable to your vehicle.
The possibilities are many - you must read and reread Very carefully. DETAIL matters - don't gloss over any word or phrase - don't assume you know what something means. As an example, take the word "truck." You read right over that and never give it a second thought because in your mind you know very well what a truck is - RIGHT? WRONG. You must look up the vehicle code's definition of a truck. You may find that the definition given fits your vehicle, regardless of how the DMV (Secretary of State, whoever does the registration of vehicles in VA) classifies it for THEIR purposes. The legislators writing the statutes are generally far too busy worrying about getting reelected to spend any time cross-checking statutes with the myriad things they impact upon, resulting in a lot of gray area, inconsistencies, loopholes, etc. Do your homework - after all it's your XJ we're talking about here. Don't let them screw around with your rig - stand up for yourself by exercising your brain. STRYKER's definitely got the right attitude on this one - well done!
Good luck!
 
i was at the RMV last week to register my 3rd XJ.. the computer made it come up as a "station wagon" ... i had her manually change it to "utility".. so to actually chasnge my 2 others i would only need to apply for a title ammendment... and pay a few bucks.. i might just do that so i dont run into problems like this when i do my next lift... maybe you can change your VA registration with a simple visit to the RMV? good luck and let us know what "the judge" has to say...
mike
 
Just swap on some stock tires & get it signed off. Isn't this just a "fix-it" ticket?
 
I didn’t follow all that leagal stuff but I know a guy that has a willys that has a bumper that pivots from just behind the rear wheel. he can pin it up for wheelin and let I down for THE MAN. In the down position it sits about 8 inches below the up position.
 
Install removable lowers on the bumpers...take em off if you are wheelin...we are lucky here...no hassles over bumpers, tires, ride height, etc...there are so many lifted trucks here that public outcry and a little common sense have led to reasonable policing...as long as the vehicle does not display poor handling or hurl objects you are ok...
 
vintagespeed said:
Just swap on some stock tires & get it signed off. Isn't this just a "fix-it" ticket?

Virginia doesn't work like that.
Md. does, cause I lived there as well.

Virginia has to be a permanent fix.

I like the title class suggestion to "utility" change. That gets "truck" status here.
 
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