DW

Ok so after much research and hundreds of dollars I have resorted to presenting the same question many others like me have presented... I have extreme death wobble when Hit i bump around 35 mph and up... Heres what i got...


6.5" Rusty's Short arm Lift and a 1.5 inch spacer - Installed last week
Longer Control Arms
New adjustable Track Bar (Came with lift)
33x12.50x15 BFG ATs Brand New, freshly balanced
JKS Discos
Brand New bushings in the entire front end. (Including the UCA mounts on the axle, those were a Bitch to change)
Over the knuckle steering conversion (I currently have it under the knuckle, but I only did it cause i dont like the factory steering)

Here what I've done to try to fix this.
Aligned wheels within an 1/8th of an inch to parrallel (I did this myself with a tape measure, I plan to take it to someone with a machine on monday.)
I checked the ball joints and they seem to be just fine.
While checking the BJs the wheel bearings seem fine as well.
All the UCA and LCA bolts are extremely tight and a snug fit. But still make creaking and popping noises at the initial torque from shifting into Drive and Reverse.
Since i live in the mountains where nothing is flat I can't figure out a way to check the caster but I assume that since Rusty's Offroad has been doing this for many many years they know what they're doing when they put the hole in the UCA to set the caster.

Things I havent ruled out yet and the main reason i typed all this-

I haven't added a dropped pitman arm but really don't thing that's gunna fix my problem. Tho, you'll see from the picture I temporarily rigged an ass load of washers on a bolt to space the drag link down from the pitman arm and up from the knucle so that the drag link would be parallel to the track bar just to see if that fixed the problem. (NO Fix) YES I TOOK THAT RIGGED CRAP OFF- NOT SAFE - I KNOW!

Oh yeah and the steering stablizer isn't bolted up yet... which thats only gunna mask the Death wobble problem certainly not cause it.

From the picture you'll also see that when my dad was helping me install the track bar he accidently installed it upside down. but since the trackbar is perfectly symetrical I'm almost 100 percent sure thats not the problem either. unless the rusty's lift is angry because the sticker is upside down. I just figure if i flip the jeep it will still be easy for people to read the name of
my lift :gee:


The onlything i see that could possibly be the problem is the alignment... I feel like I have ruled out everything else.



I def spent and ass of time typing this... I've got more pics, I'd appreciate the help with my unique situation-no one has the same setup as I do with the same problem. Having this problem is scaring me away from long arms...

are you sure the trak bar is on right, mine adjusted at the hd mount not the axle. i swapped out the rusty's set up for a stock mount and jks bar, i snapped a few end's off the rusty's set-up on the trails and freeway.

Check the axle end of the track bar make sure that bolt is tighter than the jailbait @ the local middle school.

I'd probably try putting the track bar on the right way before flinging cash at it. I mean, look at the angle coming off the frame with it backwards. That can't be real effective at stopping side to side motion.

I wouldn't dismiss the damper outright either, there's an old wives tale running around the internet right now that they're a band-aid and not a root cause, which is simply not true. Consider the definition of shimmy, an oscillation in the steering/ suspension system. What's a damper? A laterally mounted shock to eliminate oscillation in the steering. Hmm, a real head scratcher. Might want to bolt one on if flipping the track bar doesn't fix it.

How to cure Death Wobble by Kevin Fell
from KevinsOffroad.com

As you have already found out, Death Wobble, the horrible front end vibration that starts when one wheel (usually the right) hits a bump around 40~50mph, is the worst possible downside to having a coil-sprung vehicle with a track bar setup such as the WJ, XJ, ZJ, and TJ use. Death Wobble is also extremely difficult to try to diagnose, because it is actually caused by slop in the entire steering system as a whole, not by one component. To diagnose correctly, one needs to look for "play" everywhere there is something that could have "play" in it. It's time consuming, and downright dangerous while you are in "test phase", trying to exorcise this demon from your Jeep.

The thing I tell people to start with is a visual inspection. Spend 10 minutes under the front end and visually inspect each one of the steering components for shiny steel, which would be indicative of metal that's moving around when it's not supposed to be. Pay careful attention to the track bar, as it's usually the culprit in most cases. If any of your bolts are even the least bit loose, Death Wobble can manifest itself and make your life a living hell.

If everything looks to be "normal" and you've checked bolt tightness on the track bar, the next thing to do is to start with an alignment, making sure that caster is set correctly as well as toe-in. If you have been offroading and have bent your tie rod even slightly, it'll throw off the alignment. Plus, it's only $40 or so.

If you are certain that it's set correctly and you've not replaced any other front end components recently that may have caused the oscillation to begin, I tell people the next most suspect thing is the factory front track bar. Over time, the tie rod end on the upper portion of the bar develops "play" in it, and the lower end has a rubber isolator bushing in it that allows the oscillation to occur. Aftermarket bars generally come with urethane bushings that allow much less "play" in the way of movement than the factory rubber bushings do. The problem with most aftermarket track bars for the Jeep is that they also come with either a heim joint, Johnny joint, or tie rod end on the upper end of the bar, which works fine for a while, but wears out over time, leaving you right back where you started, with a mess in your shorts, a temporarily deaf right ear from the wife screaming, and the frustration with your entire Jeep in general...NOT good. The reason why I created my Track Bar Conversion for XJs and ZJs is to eliminate that problematic (and expensive to have to replace when it wears out) joint as well as for the additional flex benefits. If you are running an XJ or ZJ with more than 3" of lift, I highly recommend you check it out. Another product we have found to work VERY well in getting rid of Death Wobble is our exclusive SuperDurometer Track Bar Bushings, which are also available for the Track Bar Conversion. They are about twice as hard as the typical polyurethane bushings that come in most aftermarket track bars, which are typically made by Daystar or Energy Suspension. They are also one of the least expensive replacement parts in the steering components, so they make sense to try first. Many aftermarket track bars as well as the stock track bar are completely ineffective in managing Death Wobble due to their "effective angle of operation" if you are above 3" of lift. Bear in mind that another alignment is necessary after replacing any front end components if Death Wobble still remains. Sometimes you get lucky and don't need one...but be wary.

The next thing to check is your steering stabilizer. I recommend replacing the stabilizer along with whatever worn components that you find under the front end, as the combination-punch is typically more effective than the parts alone, since DW shakes EVERYTHING, and loosens up other components at the same time. I've found that replacing the stabilizer alone often times doesn't eliminate death wobble directly, but that it usually helps with some additional poor handling characteristics that cause the onset of Death Wobble, such as wandering, and a new one seems to tighten up the entire steering system. I ONLY recommend the OME SD40 stabilizer because it seems to be tighter than the other models on the market. It's also the most heavy duty. This stabilizer is something that I recommend to everyone who is having trouble with DW because it's one of the least expensive parts to replace.

Here are some other components to check over for looseness or improper movement:

Tie Rod Ends, ball joints, Track bar mounting bracket bolts, steering box bolts, and track bar ends. Another product that we've made due to a need, is our ZJ Steering Box Brace, which holds the steering gear box tightly, allowing the additional stresses of running larger-than-stock tires be directed to the frame rails, rather than to the three little bolts that hold the gear to the frame, which get loose and if they do, will snap and leave you stranded. I don't currently make one for the 6cyl ZJ, but if you have an XJ, you can find one at www.barnettperformance.com.

Another source of Death Wobble is over-inflated tires (you should have around 30psi in stock tires and far less the larger your tires are. See Boyle's Law and consider how much more volume of air you have in your 33" tires compared to stock. I run around 18psi in my 37" tires).

The last thing that I can mention that has caused Death Wobble in the past is hub bearings. If there is a little slop in them over the years and miles, they MAY indeed help to cause the oscillation as well. I mentioned them last because they are the most expensive to replace and least likely to be the root of the problem. While you have the front end apart, you should consider adding some offset upper ball joints to your Jeep to return the caster back to what a stock Jeep would be if you are running say 4" of lift or more. I don't necessarily recommend this for the '93~'95 full-time 4x4 (NP249 transfer case) ZJ models, though, because it tends to add more vibration to the front drive shaft since you are also turning your pinion angle downward in conjunction with the caster angle improvement...you can't have one without the other.

Hopefully this short checklist gets you started on the right foot and helps to cure your Death Wobble.

Very Sincerely,

-=Kevin=-

Yeah i guess its just a trial and error thing... alignment will be first andretighten all the bolts... thanks

8" lift on short arms is your problem, im sure your castor is way off

why would Rusty's make the holes in the top arms where they are if they arent in the correct place. I realize i added the 1 inch spacer but theres no way that would add more than at the most 2 degrees of caster.

Have you tried putting the track bar on the right way yet?

NO, it'll be next week, i went on vacation and had to leave it at home. I won't be back until next sunday. But look at the track bar... If i flip it over the correct diretion... it will still have the exact same bend in it! The distance will be exactly the same between both bolt no matter how you turn it. and the forces will be exerted in the same direction. I could turn it around and rotate it but that would still be wrong. You tell me....?

.. Its funny. We get 2-3 posts a week of people with rusty's 6+ inch shortarm lifts and deathwobble that won't go away.

Drop it 4 inches, or add drop brackets and a proper trackbar setup. That geometry is *unsafe*.

For starters... that steering setup looks a bit weak... the tie rod is a bit long with some rather small joints on either end. All your steering is using what, grade 3 or grade 5 hardware? minimum of grade 8 on all steering joints. that stabalizer setup is not good. for crossover steering you should have the stabalizer mounted to the tie rod.
Flip that track bar over the correct way.
and I bet that your bolt and washer rigging on the pitman arm is also helping to contribute to the DW. But also if your draglink and TB are not parallel betweene the joints then you will have bumpsteer which can induce a death wobble after bumps.

Please don't quote Kevins offroad... He makes crap out of square tubing thats cut and welded to an angle... I don't care if his stuff sells and may work... Its fugly looking.

Thats how it should be oriented. You may also want to check how much flex you are getting in your steering box and frame side trackbar mount. If these are flexing with the extreme angles you have it could induce DW.

mongo beat me but just like how he has it.

My steering setup is made from 1.25 OD DOM tubing with 5/8 Hiems Joins on the ends. I can't flew it by standing on it... I do have grade 5 bolts in all the steering but plan to change before i do any real driving. I decided to never even test drive the jeep after i added the washers to the pitman arm. I took them right back off.. I do see how that TB setup would be better I just thought it should go on like the other came off. Thanks... Ill be changing all the bolts and flipping the TB... And i believe an alignment would be nice too.

lowrange2 said:

My steering setup is made from 1.25 OD DOM tubing with 5/8 Hiems Joins on the ends. I can't flew it by standing on it... I do have grade 5 bolts in all the steering but plan to change before i do any real driving. I decided to never even test drive the jeep after i added the washers to the pitman arm. I took them right back off.. I do see how that TB setup would be better I just thought it should go on like the other came off. Thanks... Ill be changing all the bolts and flipping the TB... And i believe an alignment would be nice too.

Click to expand...

All those things wrong, and you were wondering why you were getting DW?

Whew.

Yeah well I'm trying a lil bit of everything. when i had it aligned with the current setup it went away. I changed the steering and it came back... It needs another alignment. Apparantly a tape measure doesnt actually line things up well enough.

the alignment should be done with stock size tires. doing it with bigger tires and a tape measure will not work out right. if its set at eighth inch toe on stockers what does that work out to on a 35...prolly somewhere closer to half an inch.

8 inches on short arms is a major consideration. That geometry ain't gonna work. And rusty sells it because it works in theory, not in practice...