getting ready for gears....

Hello y'all:

I'm getting ready for new gears, looking at 4.10's for my 94 xj i6 np231, d30 and c8.25, going 32's with an ax15. This is a DD. For what I need 4.10's will be fine.

3 ???'s.....

1) I'm decent with a wrench but have no garage to work out of... just did brakes all the way around last week (full replacement and bleed), with my clutch, (external, flushed and bled). Can I do this myself, i.e. special tools aside, is it really that hard to adjust backlash etc???

2) If it is that difficult, I'd rather not f it up considering I don't own a money tree yet. Anyone know a good shop in Portland Oregon??? Word of mouth means more than a full page ad...

3) If I go the shop route, should I have them install the lsd's, or is that pretty much, something I can do once the gears are done??? I figured they'd be in there anyway, due to my lack of experience with gear swaps, I'd error on the side of safety vs. driving around on two grenades....

any advice would be appreciated.....

thanks in advance.

acrid

its def doable, you just gotta understand what you are trying to do and then be very patient, as in it is gonna to take many times putting it together and taking it apart to get everything right

i dont consider myself a technical genius, and me and my friends have done about 4 axles now, havent had an issue

well i figured if i did try i'd use the current shims i have, and adjust from there, the front will need a new carrier, but still would try the old shims first and adjust from there???

How long did it take you???

I can take 3 days, before it has to be running...

thanks for the reply.

Just real quick what gear ratio are you running at this time?

first axle we did took prob two days, but that wasnt working all day

we redid my rear d44, started at 830 pm, had the chr8.25 out and the d44 in, regeared, by 2am

its not a quick process and i would not reccomend rushing at all, starting with the old shims is what we did

You should go 4.56..


I've run 32's street and trail with 3.55's, 4.10's and 4.56's. With 4.56's on the highway i was constantly downshifting at the slightest hill.

With 4.56's and 32's it drove smoothly at 77 mph and had plenty of power. If i kept it under 70 i'd get 19 mpg.

-C

Yep, it's doable...and fun. I recently regeared my 8.25 and D30 and found this site has quite a bit of info and some very knowledgeable people. I read everything rawbrown wrote about 4 times, and because of that help I'm gonna join naxja.

Be prepared to buy and fab some tools like big and small torque wrenches, dial indicators, pipe, etc. (a quick search will get you a good list of tools).

For me, a 3 day deadline would of been very sporty. But I'm only a hobby mechanic.

Good luck!

I did mine but had my mechanic friend help along. After reading about it, it is kind of over whelming. Now that I have done it, it isn't that big of deal. I would not have done it on my own.
1. You need tools. Do some research and you will see the list. It is easier to pull the axle out than it is to work under the XJ, but you can do it.
2. You will at least need a master or minor install kit just for shims. You will need a decent selection.
3. You really need to be realistic. Gears can be setup in a in a short day, but if you run into problems, be prepared. My first took a day and a half, but that was working slow. My second took all day 12 hours. And we had problems. Almost resorted to pulling my hair out. I only tell you this cause you say this is your daily driver. Once you tear it apart, you are committed. You should plan a weekend for each axle.
I had tools to borrow, but the bigest thing I needed was a press. I had to come to work to use that. If you don't have a press, it will be difficult.

Read this article. Everything you need to know.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/articles/tech/billavista/Gear_Setup
Have fun.

Oh ya, X2 on 4.56s. I have 4.88s w/ 33s but will go to 35s in the future. 4.56 are not extreme. You will not be overreving. I do 3000 rpms at 75 mph but I have a auto w/ OD. You will kick yourself for not going 4.56 even if you do not go to bigger tires in the future.

ALL PLAY said:

Just real quick what gear ratio are you running at this time?

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stock. don't make me say it:bawl:

You should go 4.56..

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no. i'm stock right now. yes it sucks, but it is survivable. i do alot of freeway driving, it's my DD. I can pull 75-80 in overdrive, with stock and 31's more on the 30 side of life. I can pull a slight grade probably @ 5-6 % before i have to hit 4th right now... od used to be unusable until i got things tuned up a bit, bored the tb open air, plugs wires alt cap, etc. etc. all that's out of the way, hence the need to quite procrastinating.

I haven't had the money to do the gears, and if i'm in there i want to get it out of the way and do the lsd's. no lockers, i drive lots of snow. i will not go bigger than 32's. not until i do brakes, and i do not have the money to drop on new axles, nor the time or welder needed to do the job myself.

4.10's will be fine and that is all i need. I already drive slow comparably to others on the freeway. I still have to drive the hwy's to get to the trail.

besides, i know what i have and there is no way i'm droppin steep gears into a c8.25. i'll go d44 before that happens. 4.10 is where i would stop on that axle.

31's x 3.07 to 32's x 4.10... i'm still coming out way ahead, i want my turning radius, don't want spacers, like my current articulation with 4.5 lift. don't want the fender issues. 32's = minimum trimming. 33's = call in edward scissorhands.

If i lived less than 10 miles from trailheads, then yes, but woe unto me, i do not.

After reading about it, it is kind of over whelming. Now that I have done it, it isn't that big of deal.

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my question exactly.... thanks....

I would not have done it on my own.

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would you now??? ,,,that you have seen it done, would you do it alone or do you still feel it's that complicated???

For me, a 3 day deadline would of been very sporty

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i have a shop i can use with tools, need to buy calipers and micrometers, but i'll need 'em sooner or later anyway, torque's i've got, but not dial's so need those too.

the shop's pretty set, between my brother, his friends and myself, we pretty much have what we need, arc and mig welders, grinders, compressor with air tools, lift, he's got a press rig for a bottle neck jack, should work fine...
(how many ft/lbs did you need for the press, any idea??)

only issue is getting it done in 3 days and driving back all freeway at 85 + in the slow lane, before i work again.

Read this article. Everything you need to know.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/articles/te...sta/Gear_Setup
Have fun.

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thanks... I appreciate all the comments so far, no disrespect on the gearing suggestions, I have been planning this for over a year and have read many many articles here, and outside naxja, but I really feel that 4.56's *for me* is just too much, i'd probably go atlas before i go any lower on the diff's.

ANYONE in PORTLAND OR. have a good shop, i'm still gonna get an estimate and see what the damage would be.....

sorry, not so good with the reply/quote thing.......

It's a pain, but could be worse. I'd say it took me 2 solid days to do my D30. You should definitely use the old bearings/races to make a set-up set (that slip-fits instead of pressing on/in). That will likely let you get your shims chosen without repeated hammering/pressing. I found the pirate4x4 link above very helpful, as well as the Yukon setup guide and a shop manual. The tool list is dead-on. A case spreader would have been very helpful, but I didn't have one.

It sounds like you have done your homework. LSDs are good. I like mine up front. The snow thing is a factor. It isn't easy trying to figure out where you are at now, and where you want to end up, and how to get there.

I had a mechanic friend help me the whole way. He knew what he was doing, I didn't. It sounds like you have some help. I didn't want to pay so I would have done it anyway. However, there is a big difference trying to figure things out as you go and having good help to get the job done. I don't know if I could have done my first one myself because of all the unknowns. Plus I was swapping in an axle so there was no time limit on getting it done.

As far as getting it done and driving home, check install instructions. You have to drive for 20 min and then let the diff cool completely for break in. After all the work, don't ruin your break in. Just be sure that you can do it right and not smoke your gears before you get home.

This is just an opinion. I can't say that you are making a mistake, but you should reconsider 4.56s. With 33s and 4.88 I was worried and expected a huge difference. Gears are subtle. If I hadn't actually counted the teeth before install, I would have bet money I got the wrong ratio. 4.56 are not steep. My 4.88s are not that big of a deal. They are great in the city, or on the highway. The best thing is that on the trail I actually have options. It isn't like a 4:1 TC, but I can actually crawl down stuff now. I actually have some engine braking. It's nice. I have heard so many people say they wish they had gone deeper, and no one that has complained they went too deep. My XJ is my DD, will be for some time. Won't go to 35 for probably 2 years. Will be bummed when I do. 33s and 4.88s rock.

now you're really starting to make me think.... i drive 80+% in the city, freeway mostly.

to get to the trails i have to deal with 85 mph +, displaced californians on the freeway.

33's are a long way off (if ever), but after really lookin around, everyone shoots down 4.10's.

i knew it needed gears when i bought it, just don't want to create something i can't afford to drive in the city, or regear twice.


thanks for all the advice

acrid said:

thanks... I appreciate all the comments so far, no disrespect on the gearing suggestions, I have been planning this for over a year and have read many many articles here, and outside naxja, but I really feel that 4.56's *for me* is just too much, i'd probably go atlas before i go any lower on the diff's.

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I think that the point you are missing though, is that 4.10's will be too high on the -highway-. Your trans will spend a lot more time slipping off the line and downshifting on the road, and run much hotter, shortening its life - not to mention the extra load on the engine will give you worse mileage, not better.

i have a manual...

could it be worse than 31's with 3.07's
or.... 32's and 4.10's

i really doubt i'm going to 33's with this setup.

the question is whether or not i want with 4.10's with 32's
or.... 4.56's with 32's

i keep saying i'm in the city on the freeway 80% of the time.

i do appreciate all the advice and with the info i keep seeing repeated all
over this forum, i have to say i'm tossed about it right now.

acrid said:

i keep saying i'm in the city on the freeway 80% of the time.

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Then 4.56s would be better. If you go with 4.56s instead of 4.10s, stop-and-go driving will be much easier on your Jeep since you won't have to slip your clutch so much. And at highway speeds, your engine will be working less hard to keep the same speed. I know how you feel; I have 31s, an AX-15, and stock 3.07 gears until two weeks ago. Fifth gear was useless; I'm sure it's the same way for you.

I have never heard anyone say that their diff gears were too low. There are people on the forums who have 31s, 4.88s and no complaints. Everyone thinks that stock gears "aren't so bad", and then they regear and are amazed at how much better their Jeep drives. I'm sure that you won't regret 4.56s. Your gas mileage will probably be better with the 4.56s too, though that's largely dependant on your driving style.

I just called brakes plus and they do ring and pinion changes and only charge $65 an hour. They said each axle would only take a couple hours if they're out of the Jeep so you're lookin at about $300. not too bad

4.56's it is...

at least that would allow me to go as deep as i can with my C8.25.

thanks for the brakes plus, heads up.

that is in portland, right??

thanks everyone for the input. i know i'll really appreciate it on the trail, where it really will count.