Taurus Fan not pulling enough air?

Hi all,

I did the taurus fan conversion on my jeep, and it runs fine at first, but after going up a few hills and putting the jeep under load the temp starts to climb. If I put the fan on high, the temp still climbs but much slower. It doesn't start dropping until I park and idle for a while. If I keep driving the temp will climb slowly and stay right on the last mark before the red on the guage.
I should mention that I am a newspaper carrier and I use the jeep to make my deliveries, so there are a lot of stop-and-go's and not much natural air flowin' thru the radiator, so I figured this would work better than the stock setup. I replaced both the electric and the mechanical fans with the taurus 3.8L fan. I have it wired thru the $75 NAPA relay. I have the factory single row radiator - maybe this is my problem? The cooling system is functioning properly - new water pump, hoses, rad flushed, new t-stat.
I decided to experiment, and moved the taurus fan over to the side instead of the center of the rad, and put the factory electric aux. fan next to it. I wired the factory aux fan up to a different switch. This setup works very good, the jeep stays cool unless I floor it up a hill for a few minutes, but it draws way too much current from the alternator. I have offroad lights on my jeep as well as other accessories, and the draw from both fans running is HUGE. When I turn them on everything dims, the idle drops and the volt guage drops to below about 12v.
I don't want to build a complicated system, so what I wanna know is this -

1. Should I get a 3 row GDI radiator and go back to just the taurus fan?
2. Should I go back to a mechanical clutch setup and install the 3row rad?
3. Should I keep the 2 electric fans and get a bigger alernator or another battery?

Any input on this is greatly appreciated.
this is all on a 89 XJ 4.0L auto

Best Regards,

SimpleXJ

Wow yuou have done some interesting things with your XJ cooling system. For starters if you can re-install the stock wirin for your electric fan do so, it will reduce the unneeded power draw, second the third row works just as good as a 2 row as long as everything els i working properly so stick with the 2 row. Last.....if you have already bought an electric fan use it until it doesn't work anymore, that being said if you still have you manual fan clutch use that instead. It is exceptionalyy more efficient at cooling the 6 cyl. engine. When was the last time you had you cooling system flushed? You have have a little bit of blockage in the rad. that needs to be cleaned out that will help to.
There you have it now gforth and do great things!

Two things:

1) A fan usually is not a solution to most cooling problems. If you are certain the cooling system ( radiator, thermostat water pump ect.) is up to par then

2) Supply plenty of current to the fans. What is the amp draw? Alternator, battery and most of all wire size between the battery, relay and fan. I use a #8 between the battery and relay and #10 from relay to each fan. Each fan is wired from their own relay. The fans came with #14 wire which used to get hot when the fans run a lot like using the AC in stop and go traffic.

How well is the Taurus fan's shroud sealed against the radiator? Sometimes the simplest things get by us all. Make sure you've got a good seal in between the shroud and the radiator. If it's not sealed, it will simply draw in air from around the shroud, and will severely cut down on the outside air being drawn in through the radiator. Basically you'll just be recirculating hot underhood air through the fan. Also, make sure you've got enough area in between the fan blades and the radiator to allow the shroud to do what it's supposed to do...draw in air from a much larger area than the fan blade's size.

The shroud is as sealed as it can be against the radiator. I have #8 wire running to the fan. I'm surprised to hear that the 3 row rad is only marginally better than the stock radiator. I have the GDI 3 row in my other jeep and it stays noticeably cooler than it ever did with the factory rad.

It seems to me that my problem is not wiring to the fans. During the day, they work fine. It's at night, when I have all the lights on - thats when the problem arises highbeams 55Wx2 = 9A
aux driving lights 100Wx2 = 16.5A
Factory fan = 12A
Taurus Fan = 30A
Other accessories = 10A
Engine electrical = ???

That's almost 80AMPS that I'm drawing from accessories only. I think my alternator is 120AMP, that leaves 40 amps to run the engine. Anyone know how many amps the engine needs?
Obviously, the problem is that the alternator doesn't have a high enough output to support this much equipment being run. I was wondering if I should get a bigger alternator and stay with this setup, or if I should scrap the electric fan concept and do what's easier on the electrical system - mechanical fan clutch. About the only other thing I can think if is get the GDI 3 row and make a custom shroud for the taurus fan, which would cover the entire radiator. Maybe it IS sucking air in from the sides.

What do you guys think?

SimpleXJ

Did you over heat before you replace the good stock fan with the Ford junk
My mail lady drives a 00 right hand drive XJ and has no problem with over heating or any thing else.
I believe you should have looked else were for any overheating problem.
I so want that right hand drive XJ.

badron said:

Did you over heat before you replace the good stock fan with the Ford junk
My mail lady drives a 00 right hand drive XJ and has no problem with over heating or any thing else.
I believe you should have looked else were for any overheating problem.
I so want that right hand drive XJ.

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Yes, it did overheat before the conversion. But that was because the factory mechanical fan clutch was shot and the water pump was leaking. I replaced the water pump, and I figured the electric fan would work better than the fan clutch, since the electric one can run full blast at low RPM, where the fan clutch runs full blast only on acceleration.

I should mention that the radiator is a bit old.

Thanks for the help fellas

SimpleXJ

I would fit a 2 row Modine radiator because as you do a lot of slow work, it is actually harder for the air to be drawn through 3 rows. I found that when I went back to a 2 row from a 3 that my low speed cooling improved.
Also have you tried the Taurus on low and the A/C fan together wired through the ECU for a lower total draw? I have never even needed to run on high yet on my Taurus fan in 100*F slow work so there is a problem else where and could very well be your radiator.

I should mention that the radiator is a bit old.
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Well, that does rase the question if it's good or not.
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I was wondering if I should get a bigger alternator and stay with this setup, or if I should scrap the electric fan concept and do what's easier on the electrical system - mechanical fan clutch.
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When I turn them on everything dims, the idle drops and the volt guage drops to below about 12v.
I don't want to build a complicated system, so what I wanna know is this --
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Shut off the extra lights for just doing papers. Are you running a large AMP as well? If so I would try living with the stock radio.
How is you big fan wired to run? If it runs off the stock E fan system? This is not the best set up for it. The stock E fan does not come on until 230 or so. This is way to late for A MAIN fan to come on line. The main fan is needed to move air under the hood. And help keep the under the hood temp down as well as rad temp.
Low speed can come on with the engine (but this may slow warm-up). A separate sensor that kicks the main fan on low at say 120~150 is ideal.
Then let the stock E fan system kick the main fan into high.
Proper fan set up may fix both you heat and charging problems.

Dump the 1 row, get the 3 core. You will notice a world of difference over a 1 row. A better alternator is always a good idea. Make sure your battery and it's cables are in good condition. I recommend the Optima battery. I would stay with the two fan setup you described. Make sure your water pump is in good condition. I think that will fix your heating up issues.

Wow, thanks for all the input guys. Here are some answers to your questions:

GoJeep: What is a modine radiator? Where can I get one and how much? I have tried running the fan on low + stock fan. This works almost as good as the taurus fan alone in high speed mode. I think this is because when only one fan is running it's only pulling air thru 1/2 the radiator. What do you mean by wired thru the ECU and how would this lower the total draw?

badron: I can't turn the lights off. They help more than any other mod, except maybe the lift. I run papers out in the country, at night, on dirt roads. I really need the extra light. I have a pair of 6" Hellas 100W each. I know they draw a lot, but I really need them.
Everything electrical is wired properly. I used to be an electrician, so I have everything running on relays, from my own fuse block, with large size wire. The taurus fan is wired to a 40A relay on the low side and a 85A relay on the high side. 10ga wire on the low side and 8ga wire on the high side. The stock electric fan is wired thru a 40A relay and is swithed via the A/C settings. The A/C compressor is disconnected, so the A/C setting on the dash work as fan controls.
I am not running a large amp, or any amp. The radio is stock, and I have an XM unit hooked up to it.I know it helps the draw to shut the Hellas off, but if I can at all help it, i'd like to keep them.
I can't wire the relay signal to the stock E fan system, because this jeep originally had a closed cooling system, and when I converted I lost the radiator sensor for the E fan. There is no provisions for it on the open type radiator.

Jeeperjohn: the water pump is 1 week old. yeah, I was thinking when this alt. goes out I'll get the 160A model. I have a brand new interstate battery in there, so no sense replacing a new battery, but next time I'll get the optima. I just looked at the battery cables and THEY ARE SHOT. I couldn't tell before because they have wire loom around them. Once I pulled that off, I found NO insulation left and some messed up wires. I'll replace them first thing tomorrow. I'll make my own cables out of high-quality fine strand welding wire. So you think the cables being so old could cause the high amp draw? The fans and all my accessories are wired with their own #4 wire to the battery terminals, so they are not getting juice thru the f'ed up cables, but the engine still is.

SimpleXJ

Modine is a brand of radiator that many run and are very happy with.
http://www.radiator.com/article-modine-radiator.html

Having it run through the ECU does not lower the draw once running but they wont be on as often so saves more power that way.

SimpleXJ said:

Jeeperjohn: the water pump is 1 week old. yeah, I was thinking when this alt. goes out I'll get the 160A model. I have a brand new interstate battery in there, so no sense replacing a new battery, but next time I'll get the optima. I just looked at the battery cables and THEY ARE SHOT. I couldn't tell before because they have wire loom around them. Once I pulled that off, I found NO insulation left and some messed up wires. I'll replace them first thing tomorrow. I'll make my own cables out of high-quality fine strand welding wire. So you think the cables being so old could cause the high amp draw? The fans and all my accessories are wired with their own #4 wire to the battery terminals, so they are not getting juice thru the f'ed up cables, but the engine still is.

SimpleXJ

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It could be that with new wiring your 2 fan setup may be more than adequate. The thrashed wires definitely up the amperage draw. They have a high resistance and therefore it takes more current to supply your accessories. This condition also puts a huge strain on the alternator and can burn it up prematurely. Keep us posted on how it goes.

Ok, here is an update guys. I replaced the battery cables after my last post. The jeep cranked and started faster than it ever has before. I got some 1/0 fine strand welding wire from tractor supply and made my own battery cables. That night the alternator went. I put the biggest alternator NAPA had on the jeep - 105amp. The NAPA guy told me the the factory is 65A, there is an 85A available, and the highest they sell is the 105A. The amperage draw problem went away with the new cables and higher amp alternator. You can still see the volt guage needle drop if I turn everything on and the fan on high, but it's not in the red like it used to be.

I ordered a 2 row radiator from radiator.com, like GoJeep recommended. It came yesterday, and after dealing with some new clearance issues (2 row radiator is thicker) everything fit ok. I am amazed to say that ALL MY OVERHEATING PROBLEMS ARE GONE. I never have to put the fan on hi anymore, and I drove today in the blaring heat the the A/C on max and the taurus fan on low speed, and the jeep didn't even THINK about overheating. I want to thank everyone for their help on this. I hope this thread will be useful to others.

Best Regards,

SimpleXJ

That is brilliant mate and glad it has worked out perfectly for you.

Are you able to post pics of your fan setup? I just had my 4th Hayden fan fail on me and I am considering switching to a Taurus fan setup.

jeeperjohn said:

Are you able to post pics of your fan setup? I just had my 4th Hayden fan fail on me and I am considering switching to a Taurus fan setup.

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I have a full write up on my site on installing a Taurus Fan.
www.go.jeep-xj.info