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Help...does anyone know?????

signman2007

signman2007

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Longmont co.
Okay I just got back from the trail right now via tow truck. I was out wheelin today with my wife and daughter and the worst happened. Jeep stopped running.....so here's the scenario...went through a water hole that was about 2 feet deep, didn't slam through it but went through it pretty good and drove about another 100 yds and then turned to go up another hill and bam it stopped running so let it roll down to level ground and try to restart and nothing. It turns over but no ignition. Apon further notice it appeared that the air filter box got water in it, so I'm thinking that it took some water in the throttle body.It will run when I pour gas into the throttle body. Keep in mind this is a multi port injection system. So if it took in water why would it run with gas poured in it. Could it be the fuel pump?

thanks James
 
well, if I'm reading this right....and I've a had a few beers so I may not be....you got water as high as your airbox in the engine compartment which caused the engine to stop. Now if you pour gas directly into the TB it will run as long as you supply the gas.

If I got the story right, it sure sounds like you got water in your tps. Take a can of WD-40 and spray the sensor and plug out real well to get out any dust or water. Don't worry, one of WD-40 intended purposes is an electrical componenet cleaner...it also cleans out moisture and helps prevent future moisture accumulation.

But by the time you get back out there, things are probably dry anywho...

If you want to play it safe, pull out the #1 plug and crank the engine to make sure you didn't fill the cylinders full of water.

Good luck!

Michael
 
It sounds like you're priming it with raw fuel and getting it to run, yes? If so, you have a fuel issue - pump, filter, injector wiring? Do you have pressure in the rail with key ON? If so, your problem will be in the injectors, wiring or something preventing the ECU from operating same.
 
Yeah thanks Mike, I pulled all the plugs on the trail and they were completly dry. I have pressure on the fuel rail but for some reason I don't think its enough I don't have a tester either, but I do know there should be at least 31lbs of pressure in the rail right?. see the car didn't die as soon as I went through the water, besides I really don't think that I filled the air box up with water because the tube that goes to the tb comes pretty much out of the top of the box so when I started up that hill I would have had to stand the car on end to get the water to go down that tube right? The guy on the trail thay was helping me actually had an inline fuel pump so I pulled my fuel filter off and put that pump in its place and still nothing..with 2 pumps working, so this leads me to believe that its my fuel pump because the inline pump would not have pulled gas though the pump in the tank right unless the pump in the tank was pushing gas to it? I sprayed the distributer down with WD 40 as well because there was a little water moister in there. But it is getting spark because it runs when gas is poured through the tb thus bypassing the injectors right?
SanDiegoXJ said:
well, if I'm reading this right....and I've a had a few beers so I may not be....you got water as high as your airbox in the engine compartment which caused the engine to stop. Now if you pour gas directly into the TB it will run as long as you supply the gas.

If I got the story right, it sure sounds like you got water in your tps. Take a can of WD-40 and spray the sensor and plug out real well to get out any dust or water. Don't worry, one of WD-40 intended purposes is an electrical componenet cleaner...it also cleans out moisture and helps prevent future moisture accumulation.

But by the time you get back out there, things are probably dry anywho...

If you want to play it safe, pull out the #1 plug and crank the engine to make sure you didn't fill the cylinders full of water.

Good luck!

Michael
Click to expand...
 
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Thanks XJXJ, thats whats scares me. I think that it was just a coincidence that it stopped right after I go through some water. The other day I stopped to get some gas and when I took the gas cap off gas shot out about 2 feet and I could hear the fuel pump making this very high pitched sound as I was driving right before I stopped for gas, so the pump was obviously working overtime. I went out the next day and put a new fuel filter on thinking it was maybe clogged and it stopped the high pitch whine. This could also lead to a charcoal canister being clogged as well right? All in all I feel like now that the fuel pump has killed over and it just happened to be right after a water crossing???? I don't want to have to try and trace down a fuel problem with the injectors or wiring. What ever it is I have to fix it tomorrow because it is my DD. :doh:
XJXJ said:
It sounds like you're priming it with raw fuel and getting it to run, yes? If so, you have a fuel issue - pump, filter, injector wiring? Do you have pressure in the rail with key ON? If so, your problem will be in the injectors, wiring or something preventing the ECU from operating same.
Click to expand...
 
It could be the fuel pump, can you hear it running when you turn the ignition on?

Since you put an inline pump in, I'm going to have to hazard a guess and say CPS since the injectors aren't firing. Try unplugging it and spraying out the connectors with WD-40.

Later,
Joe
 
Thanks Joe I will definatly be trying that tomorrow!:cool:
Crash_AF said:
It could be the fuel pump, can you hear it running when you turn the ignition on?

Since you put an inline pump in, I'm going to have to hazard a guess and say CPS since the injectors aren't firing. Try unplugging it and spraying out the connectors with WD-40.

Later,
Joe
Click to expand...
 
Well damn, I'm stumped.

If you have fuel at the rail and access to noid lights, you might check to verify the injectors are firing.

Of course, you could have an open return valve that just isn't allowing pressure to build up, which would also explain the high pitched noise when ya got gas as the primer pump might not be able to shut off since it never reaches 31 psi.

I'm just shootin in the dark tho

Michael

EDIT I have heard a bunch of folks bitch about this little rubber tube that goes from the pump to the pickup that has a tendency to just fall off...something else to check.
 
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Crash_AF said:
It could be the fuel pump, can you hear it running when you turn the ignition on?

Since you put an inline pump in, I'm going to have to hazard a guess and say CPS since the injectors aren't firing. Try unplugging it and spraying out the connectors with WD-40.

Later,
Joe
Click to expand...
If it was the CPS circuit he wouldn't have spark either, but he says it runs when gas is poured into the TB.
You should hear the fuel pump run for a few seconds when you turn the ignition to the on/run position. If not, then it's the pump. If you do hear it, then check the pressure with a mechanical gauge. You should have around 39 psi (87-95 models) with the vacuum disconnected from the fuel pressure regulator (no need to disconnect if the motor isn't running, ie. no vacuum).

Kyung
 
Kyung I can hear the pump come on when the key is on but does that necessarily mean that it is pumping the right pressure to make the injectors fire?
corbinafly said:
If it was the CPS circuit he wouldn't have spark either, but he says it runs when gas is poured into the TB.
You should hear the fuel pump run for a few seconds when you turn the ignition to the on/run position. If not, then it's the pump. If you do hear it, then check the pressure with a mechanical gauge. You should have around 39 psi (87-95 models) with the vacuum disconnected from the fuel pressure regulator (no need to disconnect if the motor isn't running, ie. no vacuum).

Kyung
Click to expand...
 
No it doesn't, but you can depress the needle on the test port and squirt the fluid out. At 38 psi it should at least shoot over the valve cover.
 
so I was thinking about it....now I'm thinking it could be injectors again. force feeding fuel wouldn't suggest they're working, it would bypass it all together. So if you can squirt fuel out the rail, I'm thinking injectors should be checked next.

I know an old school way to test them ist to stick the metal end of a screwdriver on the injector and your ear on the handle. You should be able to hear it tick if it's firing. Noid lights make it a hell of a lot easier tho.
 
Mike I haven't heard the high pitched sound from the pump since I changed the fuel filter and it has not shot gas out of the filler tube since then either. I just feel like it was really being worked and it finally took a dump. So because the thing runs with gas being poured into the tb then this means that there is no spark or coil issues and the fuel rail with key on spits gas from the check valve but it does not seem like it is at 31 to 39 psi and the injectors won't even fire gas from them without proper pressure right?
SanDiegoXJ said:
Well damn, I'm stumped.

If you have fuel at the rail and access to noid lights, you might check to verify the injectors are firing.

Of course, you could have an open return valve that just isn't allowing pressure to build up, which would also explain the high pitched noise when ya got gas as the primer pump might not be able to shut off since it never reaches 31 psi.

I'm just shootin in the dark tho

Michael

EDIT...well I guess force feeding fuel to make it work would suggest the injectors are fine....yeah, I'm sliding more towards a pump the more I think about it.

I have heard a bunch of folks bitch about this little rubber tube that goes from the pump to the pickup that has a tendency to just fall off...something else to check.
Click to expand...
 
well, they should still get the electrical impulse...they may not supply enough fuel to actually run the engine, but a noid light should light up if its getting impulse. I guess it's possible that the injectors went bad, but all 6 at once seems highly unfathomable so I would be most concerned about impulse to fire from the ecu.

But again, you got me stumped, I'm just throwing stuff out there =)

Michael
 
Thanks guys for all of your suggestions. You can bet your a$$ I will be trying all that has been said today, tomorrow. I am going to hit the sack right now because I am very exhausted from this crap today. If you guys can think of anything else please post and I will be getting back to you tomorrow morning before I start the run down!!!! Thanks again!:thumbup:
 
Now that we know you have pressure, let's make sure you have enough... That would be my first move. Could be a bad pressure regulator or plugged filter. If you do get 12v to the injector plugs that would rule those out as well.

Kyung
 
If he has fuel pressure at the fuel rail, and it will run when gas is poured into the TB, then its not a spark issue for sure. Noid lights only test the injector plug harness for impulse power, not the function of the injector itself.
 
Tally_XJ said:
If he has fuel pressure at the fuel rail, and it will run when gas is poured into the TB, then its not a spark issue for sure. Noid lights only test the injector plug harness for impulse power, not the function of the injector itself.
Click to expand...
True but it's highly unlikely that enough injectors failed at the same time to prevent running/starting.

Kyung
 
Alright guys I went back out this morning and looked at all the things that you were posting last night and this is what I come up with. Everything looks good except, I have NO constant pressure in the fuel rail with key on when compressing the test port. I get an immediate squirt of gas but still not 39 psi and then after the immediate squirt there is nothing with key still on. So I believe its the fuel pump...what do you guys think???
 
I think you need to get a fuel pressure gauge and find out how much pressure you actually have. Venting fuel via the schrader valve is just about useless as a means of testing fuel pressure. Remember, when you first turn the ignition key to "on", the pump runs for approximately 2 seconds, then shuts off, if the ECM does not sense the engine is turning above a certain RPM. So in your case, you need to be looking at the fuel pressure gauge exactly when some turns the key on--or you need to wire 12v directly to the pump to get it to run all the time. If your Jeep is a Renix model, you can put a wire from the battery to pin-6 of the Diagnostic Connector D-i, on the fire-wall, on the passenger-side. This connector goes directly to the fuel pump, bypassing the fuel pump relay.
 
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