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egr elimination

SUA SPONTE

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Pacific N.W.
i am trying to figure out a way to eliminate my egr system on my 87 renix. Can i just block off the place the egr valve used to be on my intake manifold and call it a day or do i need the valve for vacume?
 
Harlee&Tahoe said:
Why not is the better question (unless you have smog of course).
All you have to do...
1. Unplug vac line from the EGR Valve.
2. Get a cap for that port.
3. Done!
It will run better and part of the typical Renix "crappy running" issues will go away. Now you can take it a step further and do what I did to like my Comanche. Get rid of all the EGR vac lines, cap all the ports, and get rid of that stupid vacuum tree. Then just run a straight hose from the valve cover to the airbox. That's the best method, IF you don't ever have to worry about inspections. Leave the EGR solenoid plugged in just for kicks though. It's still undecided as far as I know whether unplugging it has negative effects.
 
The EGR is used to reduce combustion temps. This is not a bad thing. One of the reasons exhaust headers crack so often is that the XJ runs the exhaust pretty hot when everything is stock. Removing the EGR will simply make it run even hotter. Loss in power is insignificant.
 
old_man said:
The EGR is used to reduce combustion temps. This is not a bad thing. One of the reasons exhaust headers crack so often is that the XJ runs the exhaust pretty hot when everything is stock. Removing the EGR will simply make it run even hotter. Loss in power is insignificant.
The way I've looked at it is that it's just one more thing to go wrong in the system. If you want to keep throwing parts at it to keep it properly maintained it works fine. I just got sick of replacing a $93.xx valve every couple years (back then, it was dealer only), so I ditched it. I've run one Jeep without it for 2 years and haven't cracked a manifold. I am new to a lot of this stuff though and am still experimenting, so I don't know a lot of the hard facts. As a rule, I just listen to what 5-90 says and follow that.
 
Oh, he just had to start a renix egr tread. Now you renix gurus will argue the pros and cons of the egr for days, purprised 5-90 hasn't put his 2 cents in yet, lol
 
silent_bob_662001 said:
Oh, he just had to start a renix egr tread. Now you renix gurus will argue the pros and cons of the egr for days, purprised 5-90 hasn't put his 2 cents in yet, lol
I think this is one of those deals that's been covered so many times 5-90 is sick of explaining himself over and over.
 
When the EGR on my 87 stopped working I just plugged the hose. They usually fail either from a vacuum leak or hanging open intermittently. But as long as it stays shut it's as if it isn't there.

Depending on where you are located, and how things are inspected, this can be a better solution, since it looks correct, and you don't run the danger fines or flunked inspections for removing it.

By the way, note that if your 87 has the original one piece EGR valve (not the later type with a separate vacuum modulator), it WILL fail a vacuum test, because it has a valve in the diaphragm that only closes with exhaust back pressure. Of course it might be bad anyway, but don't let somebody tell you yours is bad just because it leaks vacuum.

I never noticed any difference with it disabled on mine, but then again, I'm not sure whether it ever worked. I would suggest, however, that if it's working you keep it until it quits. It does reduce emissions a little bit, and it does so by cooling exhaust gas temperatures, which in turn reduces knock. The Renix system has a knock sensor that works so well you'll probably neve rhear a difference, but it reduces knock by retarding ignition. If you can prevent that from happening, it may be better for performance.
 
RenixPower said:
I think this is one of those deals that's been covered so many times 5-90 is sick of explaining himself over and over.

Nah - more like I just covered this in another thread. In detail. Yesterday.

Blocking off the EGR is simple - just pull the lines and cap them. Removing the EGR is the "less simple" way to go - since you have to find bungs to fill the holes where the tubing fit into the intake and exhaust (and I have no idea what size those are!) and fab up a blockoff plate to go where the EGR was.

Too much of a pain - I just unplug the thing until the Air Police Inspection rolls around again... My feelings on the EGR system overall are probably well known by now, so no need to repeat myself.
 
Didn't know if you'd be interested in seeing what it's like with that vacuum tree gone but since I just did it a month ago, I might as well post pictures.
Before
Comanche014.jpg

After
Comanche023.jpg

I would really go this route, you can physically leave all the EGR stuff there, but like 5-90 said, just block it all off with vac caps.
 
When I do get bung plugs i will make sure to get those sizes over to your tech
page Jon- Another reason to get rid of the system? Auto Zone wants 200 for a new valve. I apologize the repetition guys, I searches and couldnt come up with anything.
cheers
 
SUA SPONTE said:
When I do get bung plugs i will make sure to get those sizes over to your tech
page Jon- Another reason to get rid of the system? Auto Zone wants 200 for a new valve. I apologize the repetition guys, I searches and couldnt come up with anything.
cheers

Thanks. It's some goofy flare - but I don't recall what size.

OEMR, the valve ran me about $130 - ten years ago. So, I'm not surprised about the $200 tag from AutoBone - and since it's a wacky mounting (none of the standard EGR gaskets worked - I had to go OEMR again for about $12!) the part would be fairly rare.

Collin - I'm willing to bet that, if you pulled that vacuum tree out, you'd find it a standard tapered pipe thread - they're common in intakes (the IAT, f'r instance, is 3/8" NPT.) That would allow you to get a small hose barb fitting, and remove the tree entirely in favour of a single fitting. Just a thought...

However, if you do that, don't throw the tree fitting away! Once I get things back on track and get my 88 back out of the garage, I'm going to clean up and start the WiP "Parts Exchange" (details to come) - and parts like that are the reason why... Not something I want to make any money at - just a way to track down the oddball little OEM parts that you just can't find anywhere else...
 
The EGR Removes Excess Oxygen present at part throttle to keep NOx emmissions down. The NOx emmissions is caused by excess oxygen that causes the peak combustions temps to soar, usually at part throttle and part load, i.e. cruise.

The additional benefit of keeping part throttle (about the only time you do have excess oxygen) excess oxygen down is;
*keeping piston tops/rings/valves/exhaust gas temps down which reduces wear.
*Help prevents cracks in the exhaust, like mentioned.
*Help prevent detonation
*Help improve gas mileage (excess oxygen in the intake charge will show in the exhaust at cruise, and the O2 sensor will cause the Engine Controller to run richer.

In addition to benefits, people mis-understand the operation and think the drawbacks are far worse then they are:
*The exhaust is metered with a valve and orifice, its only a tiny bit of exhaust that is allowed to expand quite a bit before entering the intake manifold, so its NOT that HOT, nor is it a great amount of exhaust gas.

*The EGR is closed off at WOT, so it does NOT hurt power in anyway.

Of course EGR's can malfunction, and disabling a malfunctioning one would probably show an improvement, instead of a degradation.
 
5-90 said:
Collin - I'm willing to bet that, if you pulled that vacuum tree out, you'd find it a standard tapered pipe thread - they're common in intakes (the IAT, f'r instance, is 3/8" NPT.) That would allow you to get a small hose barb fitting, and remove the tree entirely in favour of a single fitting. Just a thought...
Sorry-I didn't make myself clear. When I refer to the vacuum tree I mean the stupid plastic multi split deal that clips onto the intake. The one that routes all the different lines every which way. I have pulled what you're referring to as well (the one that the fuel regulator plugs in on top of) and it is 3/8". The nice thing about that is, you can go to like a 99+ intake manifold and rob a fiitting off of it, and it screws right in. I have an extra Renix intake laying around off my 1990, if you ever need that fitting we're referring to, I will pull it out of there, let me know. If anyone ever completely wants to get rid of the EGR this is the way I would suggest going. It gets rid of all traces of the system completely (although, I don't have smog nazis and hopefully never will). I'm using a 99+ intake and 91+ exhaust manifold.
IntakeSwap005.jpg
 
OK - I see what you're talking about. Not the "tree" fitting itself, but more like the plastic "spider" with all the lines running through it, where the harness divides in half for handling.

I with the Air Police around here knew what they were about - I'd like to be quit of that setup myself, and just simplify things entirely. But, you can see what happens when you have people with little to no technical knowledge passing laws and regulations concerning technical matters... "This sounds right."

I probably know more about engine tuning and combustion chemistry than most of the fools in Sacramento (not that it's that difficult - knowing something puts you miles ahead of them...) and their "advisors" don't seem too bright, either...
 
See, I told ya all this thread would get 5-90 all wound up, LOL, told ya so
 
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