(84 XJ) had 3" rough country, added 2" budget, and now my rear DS aint in all the way

(84 XJ) had 3" rough country, added 2" budget, and now my rear DS aint in all the way

i tried searching through the forum before asking this....but because i started dreaming of my "ultima-xj" (figuring going to 33" tires, and getting a couple of inches through a budget lift would be a great excuse to not make rent) i've gone through with the lift (and soon enough the tires).

as you may have read my other post of my front DS [http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?p=243400039#post243400039]...during the same inspection i noticed that my rear DS is not 'pushed' all the way in to the t-case (i think due to my lift). i know this has to be some rediculously rookie mistake that all you experienced guys are chuckling at (i prob. would be too) but im scared that soon enough ill be shoving my rear DS straight into the pavement at highway speeds...yeah, disturbing much? how do i fix this?

get a slip yoke eliminator and a proper lenght driveshaft.

you are right. it's a common rookie mistake. look at it this way. as you lift the vehicle, the distance between the transfercase and the differential get's longer..........sooo........you need to make your driveshaft longer.


but at 5", you should really look into a slip yoke eliminator and a double cardon driveshaft (generally sold/advertised along with the slip yoke eliminator)

Re: (84 XJ) had 3" rough country, added 2" budget, and now my rear DS aint in all the

firefight343 said:

i tried searching through the forum before asking this....but because i started dreaming of my "ultima-xj" (figuring going to 33" tires, and getting a couple of inches through a budget lift would be a great excuse to not make rent) i've gone through with the lift (and soon enough the tires).

as you may have read my other post of my front DS [http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?p=243400039#post243400039]...during the same inspection i noticed that my rear DS is not 'pushed' all the way in to the t-case (i think due to my lift). i know this has to be some rediculously rookie mistake that all you experienced guys are chuckling at (i prob. would be too) but im scared that soon enough ill be shoving my rear DS straight into the pavement at highway speeds...yeah, disturbing much? how do i fix this?

Click to expand...

Firefight,

I went back and read your original post and so on. A couple of important clarifications lest you get the 'right' answer to the 'wrong' question. First off, you're having problems with both the front and rear driveshafts, right? The problem described in your original post... your 84 XJ has a front CV driveshaft -- an ACTUAL CV (constant velocity) driveshaft, not a double cardan shaft that is also referred to frequently (but inaccurately) as a CV. That's the "tin can" you're referring to.

More generically -- don't take this as negativism -- you're talking about an 84 XJ. A SYE and new rear driveshaft will set you back 500 plus labor, and toss in a couple hundred more or so for a new front driveshaft. That's more than the truck is worth. For that matter, your 84 has a non-typical np207 transfer case probably (or242), whereas later XJs came with the better 231. You can pick up 231's pretty cheap and it's a worthwhile upgrade. You may even find one w/ the SYE installed for two or three hundred.

You probably don't want to hear this, but if you have any kind of budget at all, I'd recommend getting something a little newer (1987 or later). At the least you'll get a decent 4.0 engine & improved t-case. Maybe find one with some slight body damage or something and use yours for parts. Not sure what the 'market' is out west, but for comparison... I bought a 94 for 700 dollars last year (had to replace one damaged door). A friend of mine just bought an almost mint 89 for 900 w/ only 70,000 miles on it (needed the rearend rebuilt due to some water being introduced during boat launching). There's a 92 high mileage Laredo being offered for sale by one of the locals here in NoVa for 800 obo (has a broken turn signal and slight front end damage). My point is that second and third generation XJs often sell for less than a thousand bucks. Regardless of how much you sink into an 84 it's going to have a weak engine and generally inferior drivetrain.

Re: (84 XJ) had 3" rough country, added 2" budget, and now my rear DS aint in all the way

Seems like folks who go with cheap or budget lifts inevitably end up with major tweaking to get them serviceable, or more often replace them with quality ones down the road. Bummer, that's a lesson I learned on a previous rig. It's worth the time and money to wait for and pay for high quality right from the start. Hopefully you can get your lift combo to perform decently for you, listen to the folks who've "been there-done that" with these lifts, they know the ins and outs of getting them to work decently.

Re: (84 XJ) had 3" rough country, added 2" budget, and now my rear DS aint in all the way

thank you guys so much...my understanding o fway budget lifts only take you so far has basically shot through the roof. currently im junkyarding (where ive spent the last 9 days. and looking for a 231 t-case (i doubt ill find a SYE but hey....thanks to you guys i know what to look for), as far as the front drive shaft i think im going to try pulling the DS and yoke off of a younger XJ and installing it on mine.

i wish i could afford another XJ, currently im putting myself through firefighting school, so any maintenance/fix/upgrade (or in my case potentially a downgrade is done by me and my bros trying to BS our way through it. but really i appreciate all the help for a rookie wrencher.
a final question...is there any way to just lower the t-case (as far as with a bracket/spacer of somesort? possibly cheaper than an SYE?

Re: (84 XJ) had 3" rough country, added 2" budget, and now my rear DS aint in all the way

What transmission do you have??? I have a 85 model with a very similar lift height...

Re: (84 XJ) had 3" rough country, added 2" budget, and now my rear DS aint in all the way

yes. they're called transfer case drops, and can be either purchased from any place that sells lift kits, or also home made. but i wouldn't recommend dropping it more than 1".

Re: (84 XJ) had 3" rough country, added 2" budget, and now my rear DS aint in all the

firefight343 said:

... and looking for a 231 t-case (i doubt ill find a SYE but hey....thanks to you guys i know what to look for), as far as the front drive shaft i think im going to try pulling the DS and yoke off of a younger XJ and installing it on mine... a final question...is there any way to just lower the t-case (as far as with a bracket/spacer of somesort? possibly cheaper than an SYE?

Click to expand...

First, good call on the 231 replacement. Make sure you get the correct spline count for your application. Do a little research to confirm, but I think the manual tranny had the 21 spline input shaft and the auto had 23. I get confused about what tranny and what year b/c I have a YJ t-case in my XJ and also have a TJ to confuse matters. Read the FAQ page here, get a Haynes manual, web search, etc. Second, I'm pretty sure you can use washers or nearly any kind of spacer to create a little drop. If/when you get a 231 I believe the earlier ones (late 80s early 90s) are more tolerant of vibes becase the housing extension is a little more solid that the later ones. Lastly, Rubicon Express has a longer slip yoke (part #1822) for 75 bucks that can add a little length to your rear. I haven't used it, but it looks like it's a decent idea in the 3.5 to 4.5" lift range possibly in conjunction with a slight drop of the cross member. Try to "search" b/c I bet someone is using one. URL below is one vendor who carries these.

http://northridge4x4.com/proddetail.php?prod=RE-1822

Re: (84 XJ) had 3" rough country, added 2" budget, and now my rear DS aint in all the way

The slip yoke from a YJ rear shaft is a little bit longer. Also has more angle for higher lifts.

You can use any chunk of steel to make a 1" t-case drop. Just make sure they are all 1 inch in height. A drill and some metal, you can make your own.

231 t-case. None of them have SYE that I know of. Unless you find one in the bone yard that was already converted.

Depending on the year of 231, you can get the hack and tap cheap.

Just watch your 21/23 spline issues from the early 90s.

Re: (84 XJ) had 3" rough country, added 2" budget, and now my rear DS aint in all the way

Most '84 models I have seen had the NP229 or NP228 transfer case. It is the first "Selec-Trac" case that I know of. It is NOT a very good transfer case and if it does not have enough vacuum the 4wd won't work. Vacuum leaks will kill it in a heart beat. Also, the ones in the '84 XJ's often need a new cv shaft for the front over 3" lift. The only good news is it doesn't need a slip yoke eliminator. I run 6" of lift on my grand wagoneer with an NP229 and no driveline mods except for degree shims.

That being said- I would swap out the case if you really want to keep this jeep for much offroad.

Re: (84 XJ) had 3" rough country, added 2" budget, and now my rear DS aint in all the way

My 85 model has auto trans and 207 tc....I don't have any rear shaft vibe problems...I did have to relieve the yokes so they dont bind at full droop...the early XJs with 2.5 and 2.8 motors and auto trans have a shorter trans/tc lenght than modern Aw4/231 systems....you will however need to go to a double cardin front shaft...use the tc front yoke for a 2XX tc to match the DC setup....the stock shaft will not work with even a 3" lift for long...the grease boot will come apart and then everything goes bad. And if you have a 207 tc...it will be just fine with a 4 banger or 2.8. I have bashed the living crap outta mine....no problems at all aside from that little adventure with nitrous while the heep was so stuck the tires would not spin.

Re: (84 XJ) had 3" rough country, added 2" budget, and now my rear DS aint in all the way

wow...away from my computer for 1 day and all this advice...i love the jeep community. thanks a bunch guys. i plan on going to my local junkyard and pulling a 231 t-case. a few questions on that...

1) do i just need the t-case and the front DS? will i need ANY other parts i.e. rear DS, etc

2)with the 231 will is be a bolt-on installation...any fab work, "re-bracketing"

3)with the 231 will i experience any difficulties down the road...maintenance, things not matching up, etc.

and this is the last one 4)should i still fab up a 1" t-case drop with the 231...in other words do i NEED to.

does anyone have a list of XJ's t-cases through out the years?

THANKS TO EVERYONE again for helping ot a rookie wrencher

Re: (84 XJ) had 3" rough country, added 2" budget, and now my rear DS aint in all the way

We STILL need to know what drivetrain is in your rig....it makes a HUGE difference in what will work and what will not work....for instance if you have a manual tranny, it MOST likely will have a 21 spline output....if it's a auto tranny, it will MOST likely have a 23 spline output...and there are 3 distinctly different nose lenghts for 2XX transfer cases...It would suck to shell out good money to find your shiny new transfer case wont fit....during the time your rig was built, AMC was headed toward bankruptcy....there was a LOT of "we need one of these, but don't have one...what can we make fit??"....

Re: (84 XJ) had 3" rough country, added 2" budget, and now my rear DS aint in all the

i have a NP207 t-case (confirmed; part-time 4wd, shifting pattern for 4wd 2HI-4HI-N-4LO), with an automatic tranny (pretty sure its the 3 speed Chrysler 904)

Re: (84 XJ) had 3" rough country, added 2" budget, and now my rear DS aint in all the way

Ok...so you have a 2.8 or a 2.5 motor with 904/207....I wouldn't swap it out unless its broken...a 207 is fine at your horsepower level with auto trans...save the money for something else you need....you do'nt need a SYE.
just check your driveline angles and shim if required...a small t/c drop is ok, but remember when you lower the t/c...it slightly decreases the rear shaft angle, but increases the front.....but since you have a Disco front axle, it won't cause front driveline vibes in 2 wheel drive.

The front shaft must be replaced...at your lift height, the stock shaft will not last...i used up every junkyard GNK style driveshft i could find before i gave up and had a double cardin front shaft built. Get a front out put yoke off a 231...the only mod needed is you will need to take a grinder and grind off some of the protruding shaft threads to allow clearance for the drive shaft to bolt up...you can do this after you have changed the yoke and tightened it up.

If you can find a junkyard front shaft from a wreck that came with 2.8 or 2.5 with 904 auto and a 228 or 229 case (fulltime) you can use that shaft...the only problem is they are like unicorns....a legend that I haven't been able to find...i gave up and had Tom Woods build a custom shaft. Good Luck

Re: (84 XJ) had 3" rough country, added 2" budget, and now my rear DS aint in all the way

man....thanks for qall the help., i can't tell ya'll how much i appreciate it. with the t-case drop, im going to put in 1" steel where ever it mounts up right? will that drop the front of the tcase too (possibly to the point where i dont need to replace my front DS)? are their any other ways of putting/finding a double cardan front shaft on my 207? im thinking that if i can find a double cardan front joint on any early jeep in the junkyard, im going to try and mount that one. hopefully...idk. thanks again.

Re: (84 XJ) had 3" rough country, added 2" budget, and now my rear DS aint in all the way

Yeah Firefight, you want to frop the T-case evenly. Some guys use 1" square tube steel and run a length between your framerail bottom and crossmember, drops the whole thing evenly. If you only drop one end, you end up with all kinds of driveshaft problems. Keep it level, no more than a 1" drop.

Re: (84 XJ) had 3" rough country, added 2" budget, and now my rear DS aint in all the way

The drop may help the rear driveshaft but it may make the front one worse. The '84-'86's already have a shorter front driveshaft than the '87 and up so for the front what you gain by dropping it will probably be lost by the front output being aimed up higher. I would find a front output yoke and double cardan shaft from an '87 or newer and then have the shaft shortened to fit (around $50.00) and run the rear like it is. Our '86 ran with this setup for a long time with around 6" of lift. I eventually swapped in a newer 231 and SYE but only because I wanted to go higher with bigger tires.

Mike