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Might be a stupid question, but please help

idisc0

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Los Angeles
i recently purchased a used 91 cherokee. it originally came with keyless entry. the owner no longer has it, or lost it. i've noticed that sometimes when i try to start it, i think the kill switch is engaged or something and won't let me start. also the alarm will go off randomly or the lights will flash. to usually remedy this i just have to go and unlock the trunk. my question is, is there a way to get a keyless remote and hopefully that'll stop the problem? or would an aftermarket alarm bypass the OEM one and fix my problem?? help!
 
To bypass the factory alarm system, remove the panel from the rear hatch- there is a sensor on the key switch with three wires going to it, splice two of the wires together.
 
The dealer said it was disconnected or did the old owner say the dealer disconnected it (he may be mistaken)? Something is obviously connected or it’s shorting out. Either way I would be afraid of trying another system on top of that one till I got the problem sorted out. My xj doesn’t have a security system but when my wife’s Toyota messed up the dealer gave us a new fob and set some kind of code so it would work with the car and we were good. Sorry I couldn’t be more help.
 
76_iron said:
To bypass the factory alarm system, remove the panel from the rear hatch- there is a sensor on the key switch with three wires going to it, splice two of the wires together.

i'll try that out tomorrow when there is daylight.
 
Johnny O. said:
The dealer said it was disconnected or did the old owner say the dealer disconnected it (he may be mistaken)? Something is obviously connected or it’s shorting out. Either way I would be afraid of trying another system on top of that one till I got the problem sorted out. My xj doesn’t have a security system but when my wife’s Toyota messed up the dealer gave us a new fob and set some kind of code so it would work with the car and we were good. Sorry I couldn’t be more help.

i called the dealership and they said it is discontinued and can't help me out.
 
I've seen some of these on EBAY for the older models.

I need one for my 90' but don't know how to program the new one. Anybody want to post the procedure?
 
At this webite you can get the replacement remote for your XJ

http://www.thejeep.com/piland.html

See if that's what you're looking for. I think they also post info on how to program them and how to decide which one is the right one for your vehicle.

Good luck!

Tim
 
Now for the good and bad of the IR (Infrared) remote system Jeep used on the old XJ's.

First the bad…

You cannot reprogram an old remote or reprogram the system to recognize a new or used IR remote bought off e-bay or elsewhere the way you can for the radio freq type. The Dealerships used to say you had to replace both the transmitter and the receiver as a unit (>$400) because the IR freq has to match and is set by the board and not reprogrammable. The dealership units could not be purchased seperately so if dutchjeeps link is good for a replacement it would be great.

Once the engine control unit has been used with an IR system it will not function without it after a set number of starts. The ECU can be the cause for no-starts if the security system is having problems. IIRC you will get a code that a distributer signal was not found if you run the codes. I used to have a problem with this on occasion. I found if I set the alarm off then reset it all would be well again. It can mimic a CPS failure when it happens.

There should be a switch on both door key locks and the hatch lock that deactivate the security system when you unlock with the key. Any lock should deactivate the alarm just as you are doing with the gate lock. The switch R&R is as easy as replacing a front stereo speaker.

One of the things that can set the security system off intermittently is the switch on the hood. If it's still available at the dealer it's not an expensive part. I can't remember if it's a normally open or normally closed switch, but it wouldn't be to hard to test if you had to fabricate a replacement should it be a discontinued dealer item.

Oh and for the good of the system…….I can’t think of one.

Bones :skull1:

 
Bones said:
You cannot reprogram an old remote or reprogram the system to recognize a new or used IR remote bought off e-bay or elsewhere the way you can for the radio freq type. The Dealerships used to say you had to replace both the transmitter and the receiver as a unit (>$400) because the IR freq has to match and is set by the board and not reprogrammable. The dealership units could not be purchased seperately so if dutchjeeps link is good for a replacement it would be great.

His link is good - I've been using a Piland remote for years now. I'd suggest that the original poster follow dutchjeeps' link to learn how to find the code in the receiver housing, and then get on the phone with Piland. They should be able to help him out.

Now, for those that are interested, I'm going to ramble on a bit about the inner workings of the remotes:

The issue with "reprogramming" the IR remotes isn't frequency. What happens inside the remote when you press the button is that you apply power to a cipher chip which generates a sequence of pulses that go out through the IR emitter diode. The pulse sequence generated is based on a set of tri-state inputs to the chipher chip (the states are high, low, and float), and by pressing the button you apply power to the chip and initiate the pulse sequence.

The receiver uses the same chip (it does both transmit and receive), with the tri-state inputs wired identically. However, instead of routing the pulse generator output to an emitter diode and only being powered when a button is pressed, this side is powered all the time by constant 12V off the vehicle battery. The IR sensor received the coded pulse sequence and routes it to the decode input pin on the chip, which then compares it against (I believe) an internally generated sequence based on its own. If the two match, it issues a pulse to the lock solenoids and the doors lock/unlock.

Where am I leading with all of this? It's that the the IR remotes are technically reprogrammable, but they're not practically reprogrammable. While the actual wiring changes are easy enough (though on the OEM style remote with its surface-mount components it's more difficult), determining the correct states of the ten tri-state inputs for the cipher chip is highly difficult.

The code on the receiver and transmitter is a 5-digit decimal number (values of 0 to 99,999). If memory serves, Piland's web sites states that there are a number of 5-digit codes that are, for reasons I can't recall, not valid. This means that the actual number of valid codes is somewhat less than 100,000.

Contrast that with the cipher chip. To generate the coded pulse sequence, it requires ten tri-state inputs. I seem to remember the data sheet for the chip saying that there were something like 30 million possible codes, and that one or two on either end were reserved. Now that I'm thinking about it again, I'll have to go find my OEM remote to get that part number so I can track down the data sheet again - it was interesting to read.

So you need to know how to decode the 5-digit code on the little sticker inside the receiver into the pattern of highs, lows, and floats for the tri-state inputs to the cipher chip to get your specific code to come out of the remote. I don't know how to do this, but Piland does.

Rob
 
Rob Mayercik said:
His link is good - I've been using a Piland remote for years now.... They should be able to help him out.

I didn't mean to question the link; I am very happy to have this as a new resource as I've checked with the local dealer about replacement remotes and found it very discouraging. I only have a single remote and it doesn't always work, so this is great. Thanks for the positive testimonial.

Where am I leading with all of this? It's that the IR remotes are technically reprogrammable, but they're not practically reprogrammable....
So you need to know how to decode the 5-digit code on the little sticker inside the receiver into the pattern of highs, lows, and floats for the tri-state inputs to the cipher chip to get your specific code to come out of the remote. I don't know how to do this, but Piland does.

I didn't know that anyone could actually reprogram these things, technically or practically. So often I have seen IR style transmitters on e-bay with the seller saying "just take it to the dealer for reprogramming...." and it's BS for this system. I didn't want someone wasting money on them because you can't get these to work that way.

Thank god you can for most of the radio freq type. Mazda wanted over $200 a transmitter for my Millenia. I bought three of them off e-bay for a quarter of that.


Bones :skull1:

 
Bones said:
I didn't mean to question the link; I am very happy to have this as a new resource as I've checked with the local dealer about replacement remotes and found it very discouraging. I only have a single remote and it doesn't always work, so this is great. Thanks for the positive testimonial.

No problem. Piland's a good guy, and will take good care of you. Incidentally, he does the later 2-button RF units as well.


Bones said:
I didn't know that anyone could actually reprogram these things, technically or practically. So often I have seen IR style transmitters on e-bay with the seller saying "just take it to the dealer for reprogramming...." and it's BS for this system. I didn't want someone wasting money on them because you can't get these to work that way.

Thank god you can for most of the radio freq type. Mazda wanted over $200 a transmitter for my Millenia. I bought three of them off e-bay for a quarter of that.

I hear you on both counts.

Folks are so used to these things being RF that they forget that there was once a variety that worked like a TV remote and cannot be reprogrammed by the dealer or your average Joe. I wonder how many other vehicles used IR remotes back when Jeep was putting them into XJs...
 
so it looks like i can just buy the piland remote and be done with it? i sure hope so! i'll place an order later tonigh when i get a chance. wow.. 80 bucks for a stupid remote. lol
 
idisc0 said:
so it looks like i can just buy the piland remote and be done with it? i sure hope so! i'll place an order later tonigh when i get a chance. wow.. 80 bucks for a stupid remote. lol

The last time a dealer told me they could get one (5-6 years ago), they wanted upwards of $150 for it - By comparision, Piland's price is a steal.

Make sure you have your code off the receiver when you order - Piland's site has instructions for finding it.
 
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