MAJORLY Cracked Header!!! (pics)

Got this nov. of 05:




Gibson GP400 - steel material w/ chrome nickel plating. Got it on ebay for close to $300, came w/ warranty and all that jazz. Friend wrapped it up in hdr. wrap, here it is w/ old manifold:



I didn't take an up close pic of the stock manifold's crack, but it's at pretty much the same spot everyone else's is at.

I developed an exaust leak in june of 06, bought the apn manifold couple of months ago and I just haven't gotten around to it. I finally did and when I cut some of the wrapping off, this is what I found:










I thought I just had a hairline crack in the collector pipe.... goes to show I was wrong!!!! The jeep ran way worse w/ the stock manifold crack, it would almost die at idle. I think the hdr. wrap was the only thing keep most of the exhaust flowing... could be wrong.

At first I attributed this to hdr. wrap and inproper torquing (sp?) of bolts (didn't have a torque wrench at the time so we tightened up to what "felt" right, did the re-torque after 100+ miles too). Even w/ those two categories, I believe that is just a defective product. I've actually done less driving the past several months then I did before I got it, so I can't say my driving habits caused this....


I'd like some thoughts on what in the world went wrong w/ this.... I personally think it's funny... but I'm gonna send some pics to gibson... this hdr. maybe has over 15K miles.... I'm not really even mad, just more tired of the whole thing and annoyed.

I posted here as well to get some more tech thoughts on the matter of what could've/did go wrong w/ this and how was my vehicle still running and not throwing codes?!?

If it looks interesting I'll post more pics after I further unwrap and install the apn manifold...

Yep. That'll do it...

Looks like a shotty welding job... If you weren't all the way in Texas, i'd fix that up for a 6 pack.

don't send Gibson any pics of it with the heat wrap...

They may claim it contributed to the failure...

Just goes to prove that sometimes paying more isn't all it's "cracked' up to be...

at least the APN is disposable...

i've typically been getting only about 6 months out of my banks headers before they crack at the collector welds. not as severe as that , but thet still leak.8 headers in just over 3 years... first thing they said on the phone was "did you have heat tape on it"? apparently this voids their warrenty. ceramic coating voids their warrenty too. so be sure ,as bullykatz says, don't let them know about the heat tape. though i'm wondering if the greenish discolor may give it away anyhow

Notice the rust on the SS. I don't know how they nickle plated the header. With Chrome plating I think you have to tripple plate it to get it to stick. First copper, then brass then the chrome plate. The green might be the copper coating corroding.
Tom

Copper then bright nickel then chrome.

wrapping the header is a big mistake! it helped to cause the failure by retaining more heat in the header. and weakening the welds and tube.

Also make sure your motor mounts are good.

Here's how a Gibson 409 SS held up after about a 18 months of normal driving.

http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?t=721753

I've now got about the same amount of time on the Borla setup and it's still doing fine :thumbup:.

I have the Thorley ceramic header and it's lasted quite a while with high tems and decently high rpm's (75mph with 5.13's for 50 miles daily).

Vince gets the metalurgical gold star.

That does not look like a weld failure to me...the crack is above the weld...perhaps the wrap on the tube and no wrap on the collector contributed to the failure due to differing expansion rates and work hardening....lots of headers fail from the exhaust system not being supported correctly also.....and then again....sometimes crap breaks....

id say if one section is having 100% of the heat held in, and the other is getting open air.. it could cause a problem.

And the guy up there replacing his headers all the time... you might want to search for the SOURCE of the problem... instead of replacing your header over n over... Thats unreal.

MudDawg said:

Vince gets the metalurgical gold star.

That does not look like a weld failure to me...the crack is above the weld...perhaps the wrap on the tube and no wrap on the collector contributed to the failure due to differing expansion rates and work hardening....lots of headers fail from the exhaust system not being supported correctly also.....and then again....sometimes crap breaks....

Click to expand...

The crack could very well have been from the weld. Cold cracks for along the weld in the haz zone, hard to tell from the pics, but that could have been the case here. Cold cracking is from hydrogen embrittlement, stress, or maternsite(brittle microstructure). So excessive vibration, improper support could ahve been a factor. Something else that might have happened would be the region were the crack formed was due to being next to the header wrap which would sustain the high temps but since it wasn't covered then if it cooeld to quickly it could have become very brittle. No idea if this does happen or not and can't tell just from tje pictures.

the whole thing was wrapped, I just cut some of the hdr. wrap off to take a peek at it. I'll be unwrapping the rest as soon as my jeep is running properly since I've changed out the manifold. Just got through replacing the downpipe 02 sensor (it was covered in gunk, I guess the exhaust was cleaning itself out). After doing the test drive the CEL came on again so I'm gonna go see what that is... I think it has something to do w/ the tranny cuz it idles way high in park and is just funny when downshifting and idling in drive...

sorry for the rambling, just want my jeep to be all good.

I plan on taking the rest of the wrapping off and looking at the pics from there. The "before" pictures of when I first installed it show how it was wrapped and it was wrapped around the collector. I personally think it's a bad weld right there, but also it might not have proper support from vibrations and whatnot....

why did you wrap it anyway?

xjnation said:

why did you wrap it anyway?

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You are asking that question, and you live in Arizona.:laugh3:


Its for cooler air under the hood and most imported for the heat that is blocked form the intake manifold. and intake.

Flash.

but it destroys the headers as shown above. Drag racers use it I would imaigne cause they are looking more max power and not concerned if it's going to last 15000+ miles. Ceramic coating is probably the best for a header. Other then that, get more airflow through the engine area.

I didn't relaize the entire thing was covered. Post up the results of all this and what gibson says. I'm going with a thorly on mine.

Ya i thing insilating the intake form the header, instead of the insilateing the header would be a better way(like Dr Dyno did) would be a better idea.

my first plans with a new header would have been hdr wrap......but i thing i have changed my mind!:lecture: :spin1:


Flash.

Flash said:

You are asking that question, and you live in Arizona.:laugh3:


Its for cooler air under the hood and most imported for the heat that is blocked form the intake manifold. and intake.

Flash.

Click to expand...

It just might make 1* difference maybe 2*'s if lucky.

Oh and I live at 7000 Feet, snow everywhere and expecting more

xjnation said:

It just might make 1* difference maybe 2*'s if lucky.

Oh and I live at 7000 Feet, snow everywhere and expecting more

Click to expand...

I would have to disagree with that statement.