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Play Steering

Lowrange2

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Abbeville, SC
(Yes i searched!)

So i replaced the head gasket and everything is well!!! Now for another small problem... play in the steering... I have almost 3 inches of play in my steering wheel. What can i do about that? Is rebuilding the steering box possible? and i noticed the other day that when my front wheels are strapped down to my car dolly and i turn the steering the gear box seems to "slip". (with little effort) While driving at higher speeds it would be nice to have trustworthy steering, wouldnt you?
 
REbuilding the steering box is possible, but it's probably more economical to get a rebuilt one. Before going too far, you had better get under there, and find out exactly what is worn out. It helps to have a second person, one to wiggle the steering wheel and one to look at the linkages. Get somebody who can follow instructions. Start by wiggling the wheel back and forth without going too far, just within the "play area." Try to find where the lost motion is. Is the wheel turning without any movement at the pitman arm of the steering gear? If so, look at the steering column and shaft first, and if there's nothing bad happening there, suspect the steering gear itself. Look carefully at the two little universal joints in the steering shaft, and also make sure that the two ends of the steering shaft are tight on the column at the top, and the steering gear at the bottom

Next, look a the bottom (pitman) shaft of the steering gear. When the wheel is wiggled, does the shaft move sideways before it starts to turn? A tiny bit of play is routine, but only a little. If it's a lot, you're back to needing a steering gear replacement or rebuild.

Now start looking at other linkages, one by one. It helps now to get a little more movement at the steering wheel, but perhaps a little slower. Check for lost motion at the tie rod ends, and at the ball joints that connect the drag link to the pitman arm, and the drag link to the tie rod. Any or all of those four joints can be bad. Finally, look carefully at the ball joint that joins the track bar to the frame, and look for movement there (none at all allowed), and check for movement at the other end, where the track bar attaches to the axle.

While you're at it, you can check the ball joints. The best way to do that is to jack up one side of the front axle at a time, by the axle tube, just enough to get a big lever under the tire. Push the tire upward with the lever, and look carefully at the ball joints, especially the upper one. There should be no visible up-down movement there.

While you're at it (you're still at it, right?) make sure that the steering gear box itself is tightly and correctly bolted to the frame.

I think if you search the archives, you'll probably find some discussions of the merits of different brands of rebuilt steering boxes, as well as some discussions of alternative boxes (ZJ, Dodge Dakota, etc.) that one might use.
 
lowrange2I have almost 3 inches of play in my steering wheel. What can i do about that? Is rebuilding the steering box possible? [/QUOTE said:
I fought this quite a bit. The three things that made the most difference (in order of effectiveness) were-

1- Trackbar. TIGHT trackbar. It seems I can't get them tight enough the first time, nor the second....

2- Rag joint in the steering column. Huge difference for about $125 for a new intermediate shaft from the dealer. I've posted the part number here before.

3- Adjust steering box. Made a small difference. I'm convinced it wasn't really the problem and the other two were.

4- Shocks. The whole thing tightened up with new shocks.

I now have race-car tight steering which my wife doesn't appreciate because she thinks it's too quick. She drives a Suburban most of the time, so her opinion doesn't count.

To test the intermediate shaft, open the drivers door with the engine running (to power the power steering) and open the hood as high as you can. Give your A pillar a big hug, holding the shaft with the left hand and the steering wheel with the right. I took the air box out to do this. Move the steering wheel to the limits of the play on both sides and feel the shaft for the movement. If there is no slop before the rag joint and there is a few degrees of slop after, get a new rag joint. There is also a U-joint lower on the intermediate shaft near the connection to the steering box that may develop wear, although my U-joint was tight when the rag joint had significant play so I assume yours would be similar.

I still have the old shaft at home that I could get pictures of if you need it. The replacement was quick and easy, made a huge difference. Dealer only part though, and I didn't want a mostly worn out part from a junkyard for most of the same cost.

Of course all the things mentioned by Mr. Currie also apply.
 
SCW, I'm curious about the rag joint you mention. Is this a joint in addition to the two universals on the intermediate shaft (which is what all the XJ's I've had used), or is it a variant of the intermediate shaft using a rag joint instead of a universal at the top?
 
I looked through the garage and couldn't find the old shaft, I must have thrown it out.

If you look closely at the shaft there is a U-joint at the bottom near the stub shaft protruding from the steering box. About a foot up from the U-joint is an enclosed joint (rag joint) with a bearing and nylon (?) bushing, and another u-joint directly above it.
Here is an exploded view of the part-

bob.jpg


Part # 31 is a one-piece deal that has the nylon bushing included. There is a U-joint above the rag joint, but it's the nylon in the rag joint that wears, not the joint (at least in my case). I don't believe the u-joints are rebuildable.

Part #21 was the bearing, don't bother.

HTH-
Shane
 
SCW said:
I looked through the garage and couldn't find the old shaft, I must have thrown it out.

If you look closely at the shaft there is a U-joint at the bottom near the stub shaft protruding from the steering box. About a foot up from the U-joint is an enclosed joint (rag joint) with a bearing and nylon (?) bushing, and another u-joint directly above it.
Here is an exploded view of the part-

bob.jpg


Part # 31 is a one-piece deal that has the nylon bushing included. There is a U-joint above the rag joint, but it's the nylon in the rag joint that wears, not the joint (at least in my case). I don't believe the u-joints are rebuildable.

Part #21 was the bearing, don't bother.

HTH-
Shane

I guess it's just a terminology issue. I agree, that ****ing nylon bushing is a problem. They improved it in 97-up models, by the way, allowing the shaft to telescope without ruining it. Unfortunately, the upper coupling at the steering column end is not the same.

I've always seen the term "rag joint" used for the old style steering shaft coupler that uses a rubber flex disk.

2702-rag-joint.jpg
 
I don't see much reason for this one not to telescope. They tack weld the two peices so they won't but in the process of taking my old one out I broke the tack weld and I really don't see the purpose for it. Once the weld broke the rest of the job was easy.
 
SCW said:
I don't see much reason for this one not to telescope. They tack weld the two peices so they won't but in the process of taking my old one out I broke the tack weld and I really don't see the purpose for it. Once the weld broke the rest of the job was easy.

When I tried it on one from an 89, it became loose and wobbly. Maybe it was just bad already, but I didn't dare try it on another.
 
Play Steering with photos

I'm going to try to dredge this up as it's the closest thing I can find to the problem I'm experiencing. Hopefully someone knows what the deal is here and would be cool to get some advice.

Also before I get hollered at, I put this up on another forum. Don't want to ruffle any feathers here. It's about to slip off the first page and no responses yet, so I thought I'd try here as well.

Thanks

I got a 92 XJ for my almost stepson and am working through some of the normal issues that a 16 year old vehicle with 106000 miles on it has.

The steering has some slop in it. I had my almost wife rotate the wheel and found that it was all coming from the steering column (not the column itself, but rather the shaft in side the column).

Came on here and did some searching and I ended up pulling the dash, column bolts and intermediate shaft in an effort to figure out what was going on.

When the column is in place and everything tight the shaft that's inside the column is protruding out too far. There's like a bushing/bearing or whatever that's supposed to ride on the plastic cup piece. If you disconnect the intermediate shaft and push the shaft back in towards the column the play/slop goes away and I think this is where it needs to be. However when you bolt everything up and connect the intermediate shaft from there to the steering box, it won't reach unless you pull that piece back out from where it's supposed to ride (up against the plastic cup/piece). Which of course puts me right back where I started. See photos below.

Not sure if I'm missing an adjustment here, or if the column is messed up and some internal parts need to be changed out??????

Any ideas would be appreciated. Sure would be nice if I'm missing something simple and stupid as opposed to having to pull the column.

Thanks for any an all help.

Oh yeah, I know the intermediate shaft is able to slide in and out about an inch or so. It's still not enough to make it all fit together properly. Incidentally someone has been in there messing around with it before me. They stripped out the firewall nut plates and had nuts on the back side holding the column in.

Couple pictures too.

Where it should be.

DSCF0700.jpg



Where I found it banging/clunking around also where it ends up when everything gets put back together.


DSCF0701.jpg



Also snapped a photo of the underside of the steering column. I messed around with the four 13mm bolts on the column as well as the two 15mm bolts in hopes that I could make some adjustment, but it didn't seen to get me what I needed. If nothing else I hadn't seen a photo of this area in the other posts and thought it might help someone else when describing column issues.

Oh yeah, everything was nice n tight under the dash. No loose hardware here. I don't suppose this could be the loose tilt hardware down inside the steering column causing this?

DSCF0696.jpg
 
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It looks to me, that the seal/ plastic bushing has slid down the shaft. On your second picture, right above the yellow mark, there are two rings that appear to be wear marks from the seal. Will it slide up the shaft?
 
Interesting and the thought had occurred to me. I didn't notice the wear rings. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll see if it can slide up to where it should be. The question would be, why did it slip and how to keep it from doing it again.

I have a feeling I'm going to be junk yarding it for a new/used steering column.
 
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Interesting and the thought had occurred to me. I didn't notice the wear rings. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll see if it can slide up to where it should be. The question would be, why did it slip and how to keep it from doing it again.

I have a feeling I'm going to be junk yarding it for a new/used steering column.
I think (not sure here, Saginaw columns are confusing at times) that there's supposed to be a spring clip inside the plastic part that holds the bearings in place. I have the 95 factory manual with a different column, but it also covers the YJ column, which was still a Saginaw, and if I'm reading this right, the only thing that holds the whole steering shaft in is the little retaining ring at the top, between the steering wheel and the lock plate. So if that is in place, you should push or pull the column down as far as it will go, and then make sure that the bottom bearing is pushed up into place and retained.
 
Thank you for your input. I don't know if I'll be able to slide the bearing back into place without pulling the column. Really tough to work on with everything in the way. I can barely fit my hands in that space.

Guess I'll check that tomorrow after work.

If the clip is missing maybe I can fab something up. Some sort of a collar utilizing pinch bolts to hold it and the bearing in place.

Thank you both for your insight.
 
Posting on my own post. That's bad. Thought I'd toss up a quick update though. What the guys thought was wrong is indeed the problem. Removed the column and was able to tap the bearing back up the shaft. I had come up with a clamp deal to hold it in place, but it rubbed on the firewall and loosened up. I've got another idea that should work to fix the problem for good though.

Someone had changed the steering column out before I got to it. It doesn't match any of the 92 drawings that I've seen, even at the dealership. Just like Matthew said, and according to the drawing, there is a recess in the green plastic cup with a clip that holds the bearing in place. The column on this jeep has no such provision. Not sure what was originally holding it in place, but whatever it was...........it didn't work very well.

Once I get "the fix" I'll put a photo up just in case someone else runs into this. Unfortunately I need to pull the column one more time.

Thanks again Matthew and cemeyer. Your keen eyes are what will lead me to "the fix" eventually.
 
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So is the cup itself free to move, or is it fixed in the column? My drawing shows the clip as a sort of omega-shaped spring clip that engages the groove or slots in the green cup, and retains the bearing. As usual, in the picture in the FSM is not sufficiently self-explanatory to tell me exactly what is holding the cup in, and whether there is supposed to be a corresponding slot or recess in the column tube, but here's a picture of the clip, at least....
steeringcolumnclip.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
 
So is the cup itself free to move, or is it fixed in the column? My drawing shows the clip as a sort of omega-shaped spring clip that engages the groove or slots in the green cup, and retains the bearing. As usual, in the picture in the FSM is not sufficiently self-explanatory to tell me exactly what is holding the cup in, and whether there is supposed to be a corresponding slot or recess in the column tube, but here's a picture of the clip, at least....
steeringcolumnclip.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]

The cup itself is fixed onto the column somehow. Can't see if it's just pressed on or what. No visible means of physical/mechanical attachment.

If you look at my pictures of the bearing cup you can see there are no recessed or notched areas for the clip to fit into. It's smooth all the way around.

You can see that there is a corresponding grooved area in the bearing race itself which would seem to suggest a clip could/would hold it in. Just no way to fit the clip into the cup.

Also why I suspect that this is from a different vehicle and has been swapped in.


DSCF0701.jpg
 
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I thought I might be able to find the remains of the column from the 89 I took apart a few years ago, but it seems to have gone away.

The illustration I showed may be for the column shift version, and I notice that the column shift on my Chevy truck resembles it, with the external clip. The only illustration I can find of the Cherokee non column shift version is a little one in Haynes, in which the cup looks like yours, but no clip is visible. If there's a clip, it must snap internally into the cup, rather than externally as the illustration shows. I still think there might be a way you could find or design an internal clip resembling the one in the illustration that would retain the bearing, but I have yet to find what the official one looks like.
 
So far I'm not having much luck on finding out more, but in the process, I found this link that give a pretty thorough inside view of the typical Saginaw tilt column. I see that the one illustrated uses a retainer held on by two screws at the bottom, so it doesn't look quite like the Jeep version, but I thought the page might be worth bookmarking for the rest of its contents:

http://www.diyfiero.com/dropspot/Jazzman_Steering_Rack_Rebuild.pdf
 
This is cut n pasted from the page the dealership's parts counter printed out. Supposedly it's from a 92 floor shift, tilt wheel. That's what this one is so unless it's been changed at some point.

It looks pretty much like the drawing you put up Mathew. At least as far as the bearing/cup/clip is concerned.

steeringcolumn.jpg
 
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Some will laugh........some might say "that's unsafe", but here's what I ended up doing.

I had a piece of 1" water pipe. Cut it to a 2" length and split it lengthwise and made two
halves. Drilled a 1/4" hole through both pieces of pipe and the steering shaft. Bolted it
together with a 1/4" stainless bolt and nylock nut.

My only concern was drilling a hole in the steering shaft. After much debate I figured it's
probably still not the weakest link in the steering setup even with a hole drilled in it.

Works like a champ and It sure aint coming off again.

Side note.........sawing a piece of conduit in half lengthwise is no picnic especially with
a hand saw. My bandsaw has a broken blade so I winged it by hand. If you're ever bored
grab a saw and give it a go. Make sure you have at least one extra blade and a bag full
of cuss words.

All the slop it gone, bearing isn't going anywhere. Right or wrong.......I'm calling it done
and moving on to other things.

DSCF0702Small.jpg
 
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