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Ford 8.8 axle Q's

S

sheeks175

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Woodinville, WA
I know this has been gone over a million times and I searched, but didn't find quite what I was looking for:

I wanna swap a ford 8.8 in with discs, 4.10s the limited diffs, and a dana 30 from a 4 banger with 4.10s. I have dana 44's available to me for the rear, but I think this will save me some $$.

So will I new rear U joint, or input shaft on the 8.8? Where do I get it?
When I do the spring perchs can I relocate the ones on either the 8.8 or my 35? Would I weld them up at 7 degrees since I have 8 inchs of lift, or just flat and put my shims in again?
Do I need new brake line ends for the calipers on the 8.8? (I have no abs)
Does the E brake cable bolt up?
And how much will a average yard charge for an 8.8 and 30 with 4.10s, or I could go to the pull a part and do it my self for cheaper? Thanks for the help in advance guys, I just wanna see if its worth all the work to do an 8.8 if I can get a 44, but spend more $$$$. Thanks!
-Patrick :moon:
 
sheeks175 said:
I know this has been gone over a million times and I searched, but didn't find quite what I was looking for:

I wanna swap a ford 8.8 in with discs, 4.10s the limited diffs, and a dana 30 from a 4 banger with 4.10s. I have dana 44's available to me for the rear, but I think this will save me some $$.

So will I new rear U joint, or input shaft on the 8.8? Where do I get it?
When I do the spring perchs can I relocate the ones on either the 8.8 or my 35? Would I weld them up at 7 degrees since I have 8 inchs of lift, or just flat and put my shims in again?
Do I need new brake line ends for the calipers on the 8.8? (I have no abs)
Does the E brake cable bolt up?
And how much will a average yard charge for an 8.8 and 30 with 4.10s, or I could go to the pull a part and do it my self for cheaper? Thanks for the help in advance guys, I just wanna see if its worth all the work to do an 8.8 if I can get a 44, but spend more $$$$. Thanks!
-Patrick :moon:
Click to expand...

Ford 8.8 is a AWSOME swap. Its one of the 1st things I did with the help of a welding buddy of mine, and it went super smooth. I will try to answer as best as I can here.

1- Get the adapter from M.O.R.E. Its 40 bucks and lets you use standard XJ U-joints.
2- I would point the pinion straight at the tranny. We did mine with the standard 6 degrees and I ended up using shims to get rid of vibes, but I will also be doing a SYE cuz I am at 6" of lift. I am running mine pointed directly at it now and no vibes or a SYE as of yet.
3- The only brake line you will need is a new line made for you to adapt the XJ brake line from the " frame " to the axle. Had mine custom made for about 80 bucks at a brake line shop in town. They made it extra long for me so I have plenty of extra for future lifting if needed.
4- I struggled with getting the ford E-brakes to work and never could. I ended up buying the E-brake lines from M.O.R.E. and they were a 5 minute install and work GREAT.
5- As far as junk yard prices go, its a swing in the dark. I got my 8.8 out of a 2000 exploder complete with calipers, rotors and 4:10 gears with limited slip for $350.00. I have heard of some guys getting a little cheaper, and some guys paying alot more. My advice, call around and play hardball with these guys. As far as a D30, they are a dime a dozen, should be no problem geting another one, but the 4:10's might be kinda ellusive. If you plan on running 33' or even 35's, I would think about 4:56 or 4:88's. I run 4:10s now and I am saving to go 4:88's When I went to 33's from 32's I noticed a good drop in power and I only get about 13 mpg average. Mine is not a DD, so its not a huge issue, but 4:88's are the future for me. I know a few guys that run 33's and 4:88's and that seems to be the sweet spot for gears and tires.

Also, one last note: I dont know what year your running, but you might be looking at a brake booster upgrade. I run a 90 XJ and it has a single diaphram booster and the brakes are not nearly as strong with discs in the rear. It is just not designed to push enough fluid to the rear's. I plan on upgrading to a 99WJ brake and steering system real soon anyway, so no big deal. the 99+ WJ's are set up with a master cylynder for 4 wheel disks and a dual diaphram booster. I have a frined that runs this setup with 35's and his stops on a dime.

So, I hope I answered your questions and good luck. This indeed was a GREAT SWAP for the $$. I got 4 wheel disks and a axle that will last for YEARS with no worries. Besides, I love the look I get from the tire shop guys when they see rear disks on a old CLUNKER!!!!! WTF???? LOL

:cheers:
 
RockingAz said:
Ford 8.8 is a AWSOME swap. Its one of the 1st things I did with the help of a welding buddy of mine, and it went super smooth. I will try to answer as best as I can here.

1- Get the adapter from M.O.R.E. Its 40 bucks and lets you use standard XJ U-joints.
2- I would point the pinion straight at the tranny. We did mine with the standard 6 degrees and I ended up using shims to get rid of vibes, but I will also be doing a SYE cuz I am at 6" of lift. I am running mine pointed directly at it now and no vibes or a SYE as of yet.
3- The only brake line you will need is a new line made for you to adapt the XJ brake line from the " frame " to the axle. Had mine custom made for about 80 bucks at a brake line shop in town. They made it extra long for me so I have plenty of extra for future lifting if needed.
4- I struggled with getting the ford E-brakes to work and never could. I ended up buying the E-brake lines from M.O.R.E. and they were a 5 minute install and work GREAT.
5- As far as junk yard prices go, its a swing in the dark. I got my 8.8 out of a 2000 exploder complete with calipers, rotors and 4:10 gears with limited slip for $350.00. I have heard of some guys getting a little cheaper, and some guys paying alot more. My advice, call around and play hardball with these guys. As far as a D30, they are a dime a dozen, should be no problem geting another one, but the 4:10's might be kinda ellusive. If you plan on running 33' or even 35's, I would think about 4:56 or 4:88's. I run 4:10s now and I am saving to go 4:88's When I went to 33's from 32's I noticed a good drop in power and I only get about 13 mpg average. Mine is not a DD, so its not a huge issue, but 4:88's are the future for me. I know a few guys that run 33's and 4:88's and that seems to be the sweet spot for gears and tires.

Also, one last note: I dont know what year your running, but you might be looking at a brake booster upgrade. I run a 90 XJ and it has a single diaphram booster and the brakes are not nearly as strong with discs in the rear. It is just not designed to push enough fluid to the rear's. I plan on upgrading to a 99WJ brake and steering system real soon anyway, so no big deal. the 99+ WJ's are set up with a master cylynder for 4 wheel disks and a dual diaphram booster. I have a frined that runs this setup with 35's and his stops on a dime.

So, I hope I answered your questions and good luck. This indeed was a GREAT SWAP for the $$. I got 4 wheel disks and a axle that will last for YEARS with no worries. Besides, I love the look I get from the tire shop guys when they see rear disks on a old CLUNKER!!!!! WTF???? LOL

:cheers:
Click to expand...
i just picked up a ford 8.8 myself. hardest part im confused on is the pinion angle. your saying point it straight foreward towards the front of the vehicle or pointed up a little towards the tranny?..??? thanks
 
If you're running a SYE then point it right at the output shaft of the t-case. With the slipstyle stock shaft it's going to be parallel with the output shaft.

You can save yourself some money by getting that flange/adapter from NAPA or a drivetrain/driveshaft shop. It's Spicer #2-2-1379 and costs about $23-24 vs. the $40 from M.O.R.E.

As far as brakelines go, you can easily do this yourself. The driver's side 8.8 line is attached to the t-block, yank that altogether and replace it with a passenger side one for an 8.8. Then use the Jeep's t-block (stock or go with a YJ's for a longer line) and simply pick up some small sections of preflared tubing and bend it up yourself. Cost about $45-50.

There are a few writeups on what to do with the ebrakes, can't even remember what I did but I think it was the cables of a ZJ. I know they work-had to use them once.

Spring perches are easy to make, usually you can pick up some for under $20. I made mine about 7" long with 3 locating holes to adjust where I wanted the axle positioned. Making them a little longer helps with spring wrap too. Let me know if you need a set.

Have someone put some stitch welds on the pumpkin/axle tubes as these have just a rosette weld which can shear under extreme loads.
 
soo confusing
 
Thanks for the great info Rockingaz and Ajsarmor. I never knew there were kits out there for this swap. I guess it is really popular though. So I think I might take the easy route and go with the installation kit, the ebrake kit, and the u joint conversion that more makes. It is almost as much as an 8.8! Totals about $295, is there anyway I could save some $$, one of you said you could use ZJ e brake cables, is that right? Im sure that would save me about $100, but it sounds like the U joint and Installation kit are a nessecity. Tell me what yall think thanks guys!
-Patrick:moon: Here is MORE's 8.8 kits URL: http://www.mountainoffroad.com/more.htm
 
I picked up an 8.8 a while back for $275. Its 4.10's, limited slip, disc brakes, etc.

I paid a shop to do the install. For $550 they did the following:
-Clean and repaint the axle
-Weld on new spring perches & axle mounts
-Do all the brake line work (no e-brake yet...)
-Install my PORC SYE kit
-Order me a new driveshaft from a local shop (paid $280 for the shaft)
-Regear my front D30 with the 4.10's I supplied

I considered doing it myself, but they have all the tools and experience. I dropped it off friday night and picked it up sunday afternoon. The place is called JCR offroad (Kalamazoo, MI). I highly recommend them. Definately weld in you spring perches with the axle under the vehicle and it sitting on the ground. Tack them, lower the vehicle and check...then adjust.
 
AJsArmor said:
If you're running a SYE then point it right at the output shaft of the t-case. With the slipstyle stock shaft it's going to be parallel with the output shaft.

You can save yourself some money by getting that flange/adapter from NAPA or a drivetrain/driveshaft shop. It's Spicer #2-2-1379 and costs about $23-24 vs. the $40 from M.O.R.E.

As far as brakelines go, you can easily do this yourself. The driver's side 8.8 line is attached to the t-block, yank that altogether and replace it with a passenger side one for an 8.8. Then use the Jeep's t-block (stock or go with a YJ's for a longer line) and simply pick up some small sections of preflared tubing and bend it up yourself. Cost about $45-50.

There are a few writeups on what to do with the ebrakes, can't even remember what I did but I think it was the cables of a ZJ. I know they work-had to use them once.

Spring perches are easy to make, usually you can pick up some for under $20. I made mine about 7" long with 3 locating holes to adjust where I wanted the axle positioned. Making them a little longer helps with spring wrap too. Let me know if you need a set.

Have someone put some stitch welds on the pumpkin/axle tubes as these have just a rosette weld which can shear under extreme loads.
Click to expand...

NAPA discontinued their partnership with the company that owns Spicer. I just came from there and the owner told me they can't get anything from them.
I did get a referral to a local truck/clutch shop that had one in stock. You can find a local distributor at Spicer's website:

http://www2.dana.com/expert/wc.dll?hvtss~spicerparts~locate_ld
 
NOT SURE WHY ANYONE HASENT BROUGHT UP THE CONVERSION U JOINT
NEAPCO 0134HD IT WILL ALLOW YOU TO USE THE FORD YOKE ON YOUR XJ SHAFT. THATS WHAT I HAVE 12.00 FOR THE JOINT AT ANY AUTO PARTS STORE.
 
azxj87 said:
NOT SURE WHY ANYONE HASENT BROUGHT UP THE CONVERSION U JOINT
NEAPCO 0134HD IT WILL ALLOW YOU TO USE THE FORD YOKE ON YOUR XJ SHAFT. THATS WHAT I HAVE 12.00 FOR THE JOINT AT ANY AUTO PARTS STORE.
Click to expand...

Some of us swapping an 8.8 in didn't get the flange adapter from the yard. A conversion u-joint would be applicable if you were running the ford adapter on the pinion flange to an XJ driveshaft with the 1310 joints. Otherwise, you need a flange adapter for the pinion flange and it's easiest to purchase the spicer 2-2-1379 that already accepts 1310 joints and you don't have to rework the driveshaft with a conversion u-joint.

You made a good point, but you look like an asshat because you can't turn off your caps lock.
 
1st off, I am running a slip yoke still and its pointed almost straight at the tranny and it works great with no vibes. This is one of those things that jeep specific. I would recommend that you point it straight at the tranny and do a SYE if your running more than 4" of lift anyway. I am getting ready to do mine in the next few weeks. Mine is not as critical since I dont use it as a DD.
Yes, there are write ups on cables, I just found that using the cables from more was easier than messing with it, and I needed to get it working for a trail run FAST, so I used them.
Also, on the flange thing from Napa, they dont have it anymore. I kept running into deadends so I just ordered MORE's 20 bux wasnt worth the hassle to me at that point in time.
AZXJ87 uses some weird U-joint and the ford flange and it works fine for him, I just wanted to use the standard XJ U-joint so WHEN I bust a ujoint on the trail, there is a higher chance of having the right spare in the group. LOL

As far as the entire install kit from MORE, NAH!!!! E-brakes and flange is all u really need. Spring perches are 10 bux or so at a local diff shop and as far as mounting the brake hard lines to the axle, weld a bolt and nut it on man, thats what I did.

P.S. I also took this chance to set my shock mounts even with the axle. Now there is NOTHING that hangs below the axle tubes. Thius also allows me to use a shorter shock which makes it cheaper to run the good ones.
 
RockingAz said:
1st off, I am running a slip yoke still and its pointed almost straight at the tranny and it works great with no vibes. This is one of those things that jeep specific. I would recommend that you point it straight at the tranny and do a SYE if your running more than 4" of lift anyway. I am getting ready to do mine in the next few weeks. Mine is not as critical since I dont use it as a DD.
Yes, there are write ups on cables, I just found that using the cables from more was easier than messing with it, and I needed to get it working for a trail run FAST, so I used them.
Also, on the flange thing from Napa, they dont have it anymore. I kept running into deadends so I just ordered MORE's 20 bux wasnt worth the hassle to me at that point in time.
AZXJ87 uses some weird U-joint and the ford flange and it works fine for him, I just wanted to use the standard XJ U-joint so WHEN I bust a ujoint on the trail, there is a higher chance of having the right spare in the group. LOL

As far as the entire install kit from MORE, NAH!!!! E-brakes and flange is all u really need. Spring perches are 10 bux or so at a local diff shop and as far as mounting the brake hard lines to the axle, weld a bolt and nut it on man, thats what I did.

P.S. I also took this chance to set my shock mounts even with the axle. Now there is NOTHING that hangs below the axle tubes. Thius also allows me to use a shorter shock which makes it cheaper to run the good ones.
Click to expand...

How did you remount the shock mounts? Thanks guys great advice!
-Patrick
 
I used some short universal shock mounts that only stuck out about 2". I mounted them flush even so they did not hang down below axle. I am having surgery in the morning, so I will try to take pictures when I am back up and moving.
 
RockingAz said:
I used some short universal shock mounts that only stuck out about 2". I mounted them flush even so they did not hang down below axle. I am having surgery in the morning, so I will try to take pictures when I am back up and moving.
Click to expand...

Oh wow, get better soon man. Good luck and thanks for the info.
-Patrick
 
sheeks175 said:
Thanks for the great info Rockingaz and Ajsarmor. I never knew there were kits out there for this swap. I guess it is really popular though. So I think I might take the easy route and go with the installation kit, the ebrake kit, and the u joint conversion that more makes. It is almost as much as an 8.8! Totals about $295, is there anyway I could save some $$, one of you said you could use ZJ e brake cables, is that right? Im sure that would save me about $100, but it sounds like the U joint and Installation kit are a nessecity. Tell me what yall think thanks guys!
-Patrick:moon: Here is MORE's 8.8 kits URL: http://www.mountainoffroad.com/more.htm
Click to expand...
Sorry, I don't have a digital camera so, no pictures but, this is how I modified the brake cables on my Explorer disc braked D44. Hope it makes sense: http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=90402 --------Hans
 
im installing a 8.8 how do i find the pinion angle? i have it completly level now. what next??? please help...
 
Pinion angle is kinda relative. It should be about 6 degrees. Use a magnetic pinion angle finder. I am up alot more than that to avoid vibes. I was at 6, but the vibes were awful so I am using shims for now till I get slip yoke eliminator done then point straight at T-case.

I have a friend that runs an 8.8 with slip yoke and he is pointed straight at the t-case with no vibes, so I think it is different on each cherokee.

Good luck
 
yea i sure hope so i set my angle a little more than 6 degrees
 
the going rate here is $350-$450. I wish I had access to some of the cheap yards. A front driveshaft here is $100, I have seen others price them at $13. Oh well, at least it is sunny here.
 
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