XJ intermittent starting in cold (NOT NSS)

I hate to start too many threads but this is really perplexing. I have a 1999 xj. Sometimes I will get in the car, turn the key and it will crank totally normally, as I am used to it doing. However, lately it has developed this annoying habit - I turn the key, and I get nothing. Absolutely nothing, from the engine compartment. However, all the electrical accessories work (headlights, wipers, radio, windows, whatever.) I try again in ten seconds, sometimes it will crank, sometimes nothing. I try again. sometimes crank, sometimes nothing. If it still hasn't started, I mess with things at random, lights, parking brake lever, and usually by that point it will start. What is the problem? I do notice that it does it more often and it takes longer to make it work when it's cold out. My battery is an Optima, less than a month old, and my terminals are brass and new. My alternator tests fine. Starter relay maybe?

Search turns up nss threads, but i do not think that's my problem as 1. my reverse lights always work and 2. moving the shift lever will generally not improve anything, and 3. if it won't start in park, it won't start in neutral either.

Joe

verify the fuel pump is working. you should hear a humm for a second or 2 when the key is turned on

Check and see if the starter has a light coat of oil on it. The oil finds it's way inside the starter and causes the brushes to make iffy contact. The brushes wear and get short, the shorter they get the less spring tension they have on them, causes iffy contact.
The relay for the starter in the PDC is pretty anemic looking. The solenoid takes a lot of juice, the really doesn't look big enough to have very big contacts inside it.
It's likely the brushes are worn down, it generaly happens about 130,000 miles or so, depending on the number of starts and how often the starter gets filled with muddy water and what not.
People assume because they don't hear the thunk, that the relay isn't working or the solenoid. Not so, the solenoid and the bendix help seat the drive gear forword. it often needs a little spin, for the solenoid to drive the gear all the way forword (and get a thunk).

I hear the fuel pump working... but it shouldn't make any difference... i mean the car should still crank even if it doesn't work. Starter looks good with no oil on it, my car only has 112k and works really well when it does work. Its some annoying little electrical fault... i don't know. I will replace the relay and see if that clears it up.

BUMP any ideas?

sry I really need this fixed...

To clarify - is it all or nothing, i.e. it cranks fine or not at all?

Or do you sometimes get slow cranking.

What kind of voltage do you have at your battery?

lilredwagn said:

To clarify - is it all or nothing, i.e. it cranks fine or not at all?

Or do you sometimes get slow cranking.

What kind of voltage do you have at your battery?

Click to expand...

Precisely. When it does crank, it always cranks perfectly. My battery is a one month old Optima and the voltmeter shows a little above 12.5 when key is in the ON position. Also it always starts extremely well when it does start so I doubt the problem is on the battery.

sorry didnt catch that is wont even turn over.... bad ignition maybe, i know that is common on my motorcycle, and the sympoms are very very simillar?

I had the same symptoms for several weeks with my 87 XJ. It went away when I replaced the NNS. These things (gremlins) can be intermitent. I would also check the ignition switch and wire harness connector at the switch as they gave me similar problems when they went bad.

Mike McGinness
South Houston, TX

If the reverse lights didn't always work, I would immediately suspect the NSS. However, as they do always work, I have decided that it is not the NSS. Am i right? Or does it sometimes not affect that?

OK< I would check the Starter switch and wiring harness connector at the starter switch first for connection corrosion, burned and melted wiring/switch. Then check the starter relay near the battery, and finally have the starter relay on the starter itself checked. May need to pull the starter.

I don't have a spare NSS handy, but I would bet they are different parts of the switch and therefore it could be the NSS. If all else fails change the NSS. I found a guy on ebay last year selling rebuilt/reconditioned NSS's.

MIke McGinness
South Houston, TX

i have this exact same problem. I have had it for probably 2 years now. Replaced my nss and its still going on. I didnt have time to troubleshoot it so i attached some wires to my jumper posts or the solenoid thingy beside the battery and put a push button starter in the car. Now if i turn the key and it doesnt start i just push the button with the key in the on position. Starts everytime. May help you in the short run. I would definately be interested what the fix is so i can do the same. Let me know if you need pics of my temporary permenant fix

-Mike

I guess I'll try the NSS... if not I probably will rig up a pushbutton starter. My brother suggested that it might not be grounded properly... I'll check that also.

The neutral safety switch incorporates backup lights, an indicator to the TCU of what gear you're in, and the NSS proper. It's entirely possible for the NSS contacts to be bad when all the others are fine. If when it misbehaves you can start it by putting it into neutral or by wiggling the shifter, then it's that. If that does not seem to help, you might have a starter or starter relay problem.

If the problem is intermittent enough so that it's hard to evaluate, or if it becomes so persistent you can't get started at all, you can also temporarily bypass the NSS, though of course, as always, I must remind you that it is a neutral SAFETY switch, and without it the car can start and run away in gear and kill people. Any stray child can start an automatic and it will drive right away.

For a temporary bypass, go to the engine compartment relay center, and find the Start relay. Grounding terminal 30 of that relay will bypass the NSS. You can take a plain piece of stranded wire, a couple of feet long, strip one end, stick it into the relay socket at terminal 30 and then put the relay back on right over the wire. Run the other end to any convenient ground. For a temporary emergency backup, you could put an alligator clip on it and leave it disconnected when you're not around to monitor it.

Could be the NSS, more likely the starter brushes are making a flacky contact. They stick in the brush guides, the wire to the brushes is fairly stiff and the spring that pushes on the back of the brushes is sometimes just not up to the task. Carbon dust and other junk builts up under the brushes. Mud and oil does get in there somehow.
Next time it doesn't crank, wack the side of the starter with a ball pean hammer, this often seats the brushes some and will give you a few more starts.
The only way to know for sure is to open the back of the starter and look at the brushes. Compare the length to a fresh set, clean the whole works out, so the brushes slide easy in the guides, maybe rearrange the brush wire a little. Learning how to clean out the starter is a must if you ever plan on crossing a creek. A whole lot easier to learn the process on the workbench, before you have to do it laying in the mud. Pretty much the same with the alternator. If you ever do a ford or plow through a mud puddle, you have to figure on it happening sooner or later.
Nine out of ten starter problems is the brushes mostly and/or partly. Often just a cleaning will give your starter new life. Next biggest culprit is corrosion on the starter/battery cables and or the bolts are loose on the starter making for a crappy ground. NSS is the ground for the starter relay, pretty easy to check for resistance (a simple ohm test).
GOJEEP did a pretty good write up on a typical starter service.

Would it maybe help to hit the starter with brake cleaner? Or is there some extremely dangerous fire hazard that goes with doing this... Of course I won't start it up immediately after spraying. This is killing me though, I'm supposed to drive to Cali from here in three days... not looking forward to stealing gas with a faulty starter... ouch.

J/K. I removed the NSS and cleaned it, although it looked fine... I don't think that was the problem (I haven't put it back in yet though). I'm guessing somewhere I have a shitty ground or a very corroded battery wiring harness. I hope I can get this fixed today...

since you started this thread i finally looked into the same problem on mine. I finally fixed it. The electric terminal jumper thingy by the battery was loose on its mounts. Tightened it up and now she starts with the key everytime. Check yours could be the same problem

-mike

The way you would check the started solonoid when it is acting up is actaully pretty easy.

When it is acting up you need get a friend and have them turn the key and hold it in the start position.

at the same time you need to take a test light and hold one end on a solid ground and touch the other end to the S terminal of the solonoid (it is the small wire attached to the starter).

If the test light lights up then the starter solinoid is bad and you need to replace the starter.

if it doesn't light up they that narrows it to 3 things

- bad NSS which you can verify by using the test light also.
If it consistently checks out then the next thing to check is

- starter relay switch
Which is so cheap I would just replace it with a new one from the DEALERSHIP

-The ignition switch
Geta chiltons specific for your year and use the test light to see if the switch is making a complete circut