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View Full Version : stupid fuel pump... (or ghetto fuel pump repair)


philip_g
July 1st, 2006, 14:54
my pump was making noise, a ton of it on occasion so I figured it would be better to swap it now rather than later.

Got the pump out and the replacement in and wired in probabl 20 or 30 minutes, then wrestled with getting it in the tank for about 3 hours before I finally got the locaking ring to hook, but couldn't get it to spin around enough to make me comfortable.... so headed over to a buddy's shop to try and 2 man it in there and finally gave up, did away with the rubber gasket and sealed it up with some permatex. :twak:

Any bets on how long it holds? The lock rings actually holds it pretty darn tight, once the goop sets up I can't imagine it'll leak but I can always go over it again around the outside :D

(on an 89 4.0 BTW)

jeepdude10000
July 1st, 2006, 16:21
I use grease between the tank and gasket and gasket to the ring.

philip_g
July 1st, 2006, 16:58
Not sure it would have helped, I think the gasket that came with th crappy pump was just the wrong size, both in diameter and thickness.

dizzymac
July 1st, 2006, 17:03
Is it quiet now?

philip_g
July 1st, 2006, 17:28
quieter, more pickup on the freeway. Can't drive it for 24 hours until that crap sets though.

Matthew Currie
July 1st, 2006, 19:41
Good luck. I'm, assuming ths Permatex in question was some kind of RTV silicone? If the bead of sealant is thick and sets well you might get lucky. If I were doing it this way, or if you have to do it again, I'd try turning the ring only part way at first, then let the sealant cure before locking it down tight.

Those things are a bear to get in, but I found that one thing that really helps is to grease it all over. It is also really important to get the O-ring in the right place. If it's off center it won't sit down. Another thing that helps is to file the tangs on the locking ring to a sharper edge (the original bevel is too blunt). It's hard to get all three tangs engaged at once, but once they're in it should lock all the way if it's greased well and the O-ring is in the right place.

philip_g
July 1st, 2006, 20:25
the pump is held fairly tight against the tank even without the O-ring in place, I'd imagine with a good coat of permatex on both the flange and plate I can get a good seal, I guess we'll know tomorrow.
next time it needs a pump I'll pay someone to do it, not worth my time or frustration and it would be much easier on a lift.

You can also bend those tabs down to dig under the locking lugs, this helped me a little.

philip_g
July 2nd, 2006, 07:20
answers that question, leaks like a sieve. Guess once my buddy gets back from taking it camping we'll be dropping the tank and doing it for the third time.

Matthew Currie
July 2nd, 2006, 07:35
answers that question, leaks like a sieve. Guess once my buddy gets back from taking it camping we'll be dropping the tank and doing it for the third time.

If you bent the tangs of the locking ring down, that might contribute to the difficulty getting it locked all the way, because although it will start easier, it will be too tight once you rotate. I recommend filing them sharp without bending if possible.

philip_g
July 2nd, 2006, 18:30
Oh well, have a new locking ring on order from NAPA (dealer wants 65 bucks for a stupid locking ring) and will get a new O-ring. We'll just drop the tank and do it the "easy" way.

I still blame my buddy for not letting the gasket material set up for a full 24 hours as I had wanted, that's why it leaks... right :D

Jim Mesthene
July 2nd, 2006, 19:45
Most RTV won't stand immersion in gasoline.

Matthew Currie
July 2nd, 2006, 19:47
Oh well, have a new locking ring on order from NAPA (dealer wants 65 bucks for a stupid locking ring) and will get a new O-ring. We'll just drop the tank and do it the "easy" way.

I still blame my buddy for not letting the gasket material set up for a full 24 hours as I had wanted, that's why it leaks... right :D

Wow! My cheap chinese tank came with a new locking ring as well as a new O-ring. At those prices you could almost buy a cheap chinese tank for the contents of the little plastic bag and throw the fricken tank away!

philip_g
July 2nd, 2006, 19:49
Wow! My cheap chinese tank came with a new locking ring as well as a new O-ring. At those prices you could almost buy a cheap chinese tank for the contents of the little plastic bag and throw the fricken tank away!You could!
I didn't ask what NAPA wanted, I'm sure $5 or less but they couldn't get one for a few days.

philip_g
July 2nd, 2006, 19:50
Most RTV won't stand immersion in gasoline.

we wondered about that but then figured since it could be used on intake manifolds it might be OK, that's probably the problem then.

RichP
July 3rd, 2006, 08:54
You could!
I didn't ask what NAPA wanted, I'm sure $5 or less but they couldn't get one for a few days.

The prices sometimes are unreal, I needed a round headlight retaining ring for one of our wranglers this weekend, my jury rig from a couple months ago broke, dealer wanted $35 for the ring, it has 4 screw holes to keep the headlight in the bucket. Just ordered one from quadratec for $14 and change. Tried a generic help one for $7 and could only get 2 of the tabs to line up, grrrrrr, but it's holding so far..

8Mud
July 3rd, 2006, 13:53
I keep a giant size jar of Vaseline in the shop, stuff is great for many applications. It has never reacted with any rubber, natural or synthetic gasket, "O" ring, plastic, paint or what have you, that I've ever run across. I never install an "O" ring without a coat of Vaseline. It disolves in solvents quick and completely. And is a lot easier to wash off your hands than grease.

dizzymac
July 3rd, 2006, 14:35
HOLY CRAP...how come so much for a locking ring. Ring and seal (gasket) are about $6 on www.rockauto.com You can get a new tank w/ring and seal for $89. Did I miss something?

Matthew Currie
July 3rd, 2006, 14:35
I keep a giant size jar of Vaseline in the shop, stuff is great for many applications. It has never reacted with any rubber, natural or synthetic gasket, "O" ring, plastic, paint or what have you, that I've ever run across. I never install an "O" ring without a coat of Vaseline. It disolves in solvents quick and completely. And is a lot easier to wash off your hands than grease.

While I am a staunch advocate of Vaseline for many applications, including fuel tank o-rings, battery terminals, bulb sockets and other things, I should point out that it is still a petroleum product, and thus itwill rot true natural rubber such as that used in brake parts.

Walt Stanley
July 3rd, 2006, 14:42
True about Vaseline rotting rubber. That's why you should use KY jelly :loveu:
Walt

Dave in Eugene
July 3rd, 2006, 16:07
I keep K-Y (well, actually, Astroglide) in my toolbox for slipping things together, it works rather well. I dunno how much it would help on that fuel tank lock ring.

Just yesterday my brother and I changed the fuel pump on his S-10. Pretty sure the parts are similar. The inexpensive replacement pump came with a new o'ring for the tank flange but it was, in my opinion, of too hard material, so we cleaned up the old one and it looked good so we re-used it. Sprayed a coat of Zep Twister around the lock ring and it went all the way back into place with some effort. It never would have worked with the replacement o'ring.

Matthew Currie
July 3rd, 2006, 21:58
True about Vaseline rotting rubber. That's why you should use KY jelly :loveu:
Walt
Which reminds me of the old joke about the new bride who didn't know the difference between putty and vaseline.
































(all her windows fell out):jester:

philip_g
July 4th, 2006, 04:19
HOLY CRAP...how come so much for a locking ring. Ring and seal (gasket) are about $6 on www.rockauto.com (http://www.rockauto.com) You can get a new tank w/ring and seal for $89. Did I miss something?

No idea man. NAPA will have one for me thursday for about that I'm sure.

anony91xj
July 4th, 2006, 09:54
Yep, RTV is great against oil, but gasoline or turpentine will break it right down. If you read the tube before you used it, you'd know that ;)

Lube up the rubber O-ring really good with some silicon lube and install the pump. It can be a PITA, but it's easier with the tank out of the car. Get it lined up, then use a hammer and brass punch to spin it home.

RandyD71
July 4th, 2006, 10:01
You could just try reusing the old o-ring. Unless it was damaged it should work fine. The new ones are difficult to install, but that is to make sure there is a good seal. Which ever one you use a little vasoline on the o-ring and assembly help things along.

philip_g
July 4th, 2006, 10:34
Yep, RTV is great against oil, but gasoline or turpentine will break it right down. If you read the tube before you used it, you'd know that ;)

Lube up the rubber O-ring really good with some silicon lube and install the pump. It can be a PITA, but it's easier with the tank out of the car. Get it lined up, then use a hammer and brass punch to spin it home.

Actually the words on the tube say "resists gasoline".

8Mud
July 4th, 2006, 11:31
While I am a staunch advocate of Vaseline for many applications, including fuel tank o-rings, battery terminals, bulb sockets and other things, I should point out that it is still a petroleum product, and thus itwill rot true natural rubber such as that used in brake parts.
When I was writing that, I was thinking about a "V" belt I once coated in vasiline for storage (packed in a plastic sack and tied shut) and when I unpacked it years later, it looked pretty sorry. I really should have said rarley reacts with with most materials.
Brake rubber is probably another. Though I have had good results using vaseline on door seals and other things.
I'll amend my statement to read, reacts with few materials.:)
I've had a lot more trouble with various silcons and teflon products. I've always suspected it was the solvents and not the silicon or teflon that actually caused the problems. Finding a brand of spray silicon lubricant that is largely safe for most materials is easier than it used to be, but I'm leary of changing brands or experimenting too much.
Loc Tite makes some stuff called Leak Loc, that once it sets up, is impervious to most solvents and can really hold some pressure (450 PSI +/-). The only trouble with the stuff, is it's likely on there forever.

philip_g
July 6th, 2006, 12:19
if you're doing a pump soon do yourself a favor and get the NAPA locking ring. It's less than $6, it's at least twice as thick as the stock, and the locking wings are already ramped so it's an easier start.

dirtymuddog
July 19th, 2006, 01:44
guess i got lucky with my 88, i didnt have to drop the tank, but it was a pain to get back on, i just used the old ring in there, it was in good shape and the ring that came with the new pump was too big.