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View Full Version : '01 cherokee starts and stalls - searched


Jeep01dad
May 31st, 2006, 06:29
My daughter has an 01 cherokee, 4.0L, AW4. She came home from work and parked it. Went out later and it starts, but stalls. After searching on this site, I found a lot of people with similar problems. Theirs was fixed usually with a new or bypassed ballast resistor. This jeep doesn't have one. I suspect the battery (or a relay or 2), even though it cranks over. Could be a list of supporting swithches and relays however. It seems to have fuel pressure at the rail and spark. Anyone have a similar problem and resolve it? Suggestions would be appreciated. Trouble shooting is difficult as she is in the military and living in Ohio and I'm in PA. Makes for a bit of a commute.
Thanks.

JrTxJ
May 31st, 2006, 07:14
bad CPS maybe? search for that, but a new battery never hurts either. goodluck!

jeepdude10000
May 31st, 2006, 08:49
well it would run if certain sensors do not work, so that narowws it down, since it starts i would say the crank sensor is ok, I would check the IAC and throttle position sensor.

Chasjr1
May 31st, 2006, 08:55
Bad fuel pump??? Pressures up enough to start, but not to keep it running?? Just a thought. Maybe Fuel pressure regulator.

Jeep01dad
May 31st, 2006, 09:10
thanks for the replies. i'll be checking all of those things out. gonna go there this weekend and deal with it. i'll have the wife's '00 cherokee with me, so i was thinking of swapping relays and swithches with them to see if anything changes, then i can replace what i find. she (daughter) had a code for the fuel cap before. replaced it and it was ok, but the e-light is on again for the same reason. so, it could be a problem in the fuel pump too. i'll take a meter with me and get some readings from whatever i can. thanks again and i'll be sure to post the results so other folks can get some resolve too.

RyanM
May 31st, 2006, 11:14
well it would run if certain sensors do not work, so that narowws it down, since it starts i would say the crank sensor is ok, I would check the IAC and throttle position sensor.
a bad cps can still let the jeep start, but will give false readings making the motor sputter out.. or a bad wire to the CPS, check your manifold o2 sensor and the harness on that

ozflip
May 31st, 2006, 12:10
Once mine did something sort of similar...It would only crank if I put the accelerator to the floor and when I would let off it died. It turned out to be carbon build up in the throttle body. Just a suggestion b/c I had no idea of this prob and it cost me $100 for someone to spray a can of cleaner in it. Had to learn the hard way.

scoobyxj
June 1st, 2006, 00:19
Will it run if you hold your foot on the gas a bit?

Dr. Dyno
June 1st, 2006, 03:06
a bad cps can still let the jeep start

If the CPS has totally gone south, the engine will crank but not fire. If it's still partially functional as is often the case, the engine may start but soon stall again. Since the CPS is a common source of starting and stalling problems, replacing it would be my first line of attack. At worst you'll be replacing a good one so you'll be left with a spare that you can keep in case of an emergency.
Check the fuel pressure at the injector rail as you crank the engine. It might seem that you have enough fuel but without checking the pressure, you can't be completely sure. Fuel pump failure's also a common problem on newer XJs so you can't rule that out yet.

Jeep01dad
June 1st, 2006, 05:17
cps is one of the places i hope gets it going again. i'm trying to get her to exchange a known good battery and try that first. DC is aware of this problem and i think they even call it "start and stall". we're about 2 hours apart from each other yet so i'm relying on her to do this trouble shooting until i can get there.

scoobyxj - i had her try to keep it running, it doesn't.

next i want her to just unplug the cps and reconnect to see if that works. she's going to get a little dirty, but if she can rotate tires on a 5 ton in the desert in iraq, i think she can handle the jeep in ohio. crossing my fingers anyway. i can't get there until saturday.

thanks for all the suggestions, they've all been very helpful. keep 'em coming.

Jeep01dad
June 1st, 2006, 17:29
ok. she got a code reader and pulled code P1686, no SKIM bus received. apparently this thing has a theft deterrent on it. the dealer never told us when we bought it last year (and she paid cash) and we didn't know it had the option. they only gave her one key too so i can't even program it. i didn't think anything about it then, figured we'd just cut another. negative. the dealer has to cut one for her and program it at a cost. this really gets my irish up. i'll be calling the stealership tomorrow and threatening to activate somebodies dental plan if i can't get resolve, free. i really think this is their fault. she would not have ordered the option. at least they should warn you about this stuff. you know like, "you can buy this jeep, but...." is there no way around this without a new computer and ignition or whatever?

thanks for all the help anyway. this is a very useful site with some pretty smart shadetree mechanics. i hope that the next person with this problem will search and catch these threads

RyanM
June 1st, 2006, 17:39
damnit! u know that was in the back of my mind. damn factory alarms, i completely disengaged mine.

Jeep01dad
June 1st, 2006, 17:55
that's cool skyjacked, what did you do to disable that sucker? it seems to be tamper proof.

yellowxj
June 1st, 2006, 19:05
I thought it sounded like a alarm system...did you lock and unlock the back hatch then crank it? works on grand cherokees

Jeep01dad
June 1st, 2006, 19:24
it's actually the sentry key system i'm talking about. it was an option on '97 up. it uses a coded key to activate the computer and let the jeep run. neat system i guess, but why didn't somebody tell us about it. man, i could have been troubleshooting for days with no results. the upside to this is that her jeep doesn't have a serious issue.

last year at the beach it got stuck in low range. nothing i could do would let it shift out. i had to disconnect the linkage to get it home (600 mi). when i tore into it, i found 36 dollars in change from the po that had found its way thru the ashtray holder and down to the linkage tunnel and jammed.

gotta love these vehicles.

casm
June 1st, 2006, 20:17
ok. she got a code reader and pulled code P1686, no SKIM bus received. apparently this thing has a theft deterrent on it.

FWIW, a friend with a '99 WJ had a similar problem about two years ago. Basically, the key had twisted like taffy over the five years he'd been twisting it in the lock and would occasionally fail to make contact. No contact, no start.

the dealer never told us when we bought it last year (and she paid cash) and we didn't know it had the option. they only gave her one key too so i can't even program it.

The dealer (read: salesman) probably didn't even know it had it. The easy way to tell: if the plastic on the key is grey, it has it. If it's black, it doesn't.

i didn't think anything about it then, figured we'd just cut another. negative. the dealer has to cut one for her and program it at a cost.

Yep, about $90. Found that out the hard way after I bought the current one.

she would not have ordered the option. at least they should warn you about this stuff. you know like, "you can buy this jeep, but...." is there no way around this without a new computer and ignition or whatever?

I generally don't trust what the codes tell you, but given that it's saying "SKIM Bus", I'm guessing that there's a possibility of this being an intermittent connection issue somewhere. Beyond that, I have zero practical experience tracing faults in that particular system. I'd say replace the key (cheapest possible fix if you get it right the first time, and you need a spare anyway) and see if that solves the problem. If not, go from there.

Incidentally, it may have been standard based on the trim level or packages she ordered... So yeah, while it's annoying that it doesn't work, it likely got there legitimately. And even if it somehow found its way in outside of the ordered spec, the dealer's likely to tell you how lucky you were to get a valuable extra-cost option for free and leave it at that.

jeepdude10000
June 1st, 2006, 20:21
my car is coded for special key ($100 each) , I brought my to a car starter install place and they put a diode in to disable the code, and now all i need is a regular key(non coded $3)

scoobyxj
June 2nd, 2006, 04:52
I done some reading in my 00 FSM, and if it is the SKIM she is going to have to have it replaced from a dealer service center. The unit is located in the steering column, and talks to the PCM through the CCD Buss. If the PCM doesn't get a ok to start signal from the unit it won't alow starting. From the way I understand it the PCM is different from XJs not equipped with the SKIS so just unplugging the unit will do nothing to help. A DBR scan tool with the proper sofware is required to program the PCM to accept the new SKIM, and program the keys. If the Theft light on the dash comes on, and stays on after the bulb test there is a malfunction in the system. If the Theft light flashes after the bulb test the system detected an invalid key.

Jeep01dad
June 2nd, 2006, 05:26
i'm calling the dealer this morning to see what my options are. she's going to need to tow it if it has to move anywhere. i don't like to hear about that intermittent stuff, but i like the idea of the diode bypass.

how they sell something they know little about is beyond me. i mean big round grey key, come on. i would have requested another key or something if it were brought to our attention. she bought the jeep in pa and lives in ohio so i hope they can get a dealer near her to handle this. i don't want to even think about the tow charge for that hike.

i'm so mad about this i can't see straight. the wife and i bought 5 jeeps from these folks and my kid's makes 6. don't think there will be a 7th if i can't get reasonable resolve.

you all have been very helpful and thanks for letting me rant and rave.

Jeep01dad
June 2nd, 2006, 11:08
unfortunately, there's nothing the dealer can do (or will do). i know that there is no malice intent, and the the dealership's not out to get me but, the jeep is stranded because of a KEY, a frigging KEY, man i can't say it enough. this is going to cost a coulple hundred bucks after towing/diagnosing/repairing the problem over a KEY. the jeep is in perfectly good condition and the problem is in her hand. it's a shame. we're captive customers now. they can't even see it until mid next week.

i asked them about going to a junk yard a pulling the cpu, ignition, and grab the keys from a non-SKIM vehicle and of course he said it couldn't be done. but i would bet he's not being truthful. if it can be built by them, it can be built by us.

man, a frigging KEY. unbelievable

a side note: if i bought a remote start for the jeep, it would get it running without a key, and then she would only need her key to unlock the steeringwheel to drive, correct?

scoobyxj
June 3rd, 2006, 04:13
a side note: if i bought a remote start for the jeep, it would get it running without a key, and then she would only need her key to unlock the steeringwheel to drive, correct?

Yes that is true. However they usually just have you bring them a valad key and ziptie it to the module so it thinks the key is in the system.



EDIT: I know it seem like an ass-a-nine option, but you are seeing just how good the system really is in preventing her Jeep from being stolen. Basicly if you have a valad key it will start, if not it sets. Swaping the CPU will not let it be stolen, nore will swapping the SKIM.

Jeep01dad
June 3rd, 2006, 07:06
ziptie the key, i wondered how they fooled the system. yea, i'm glad that the system is doing what it's intended to do. too bad it locks out the owner too. there ought to be a bypass so you can at least limp it to the dealer. imagine needing towed from the beach.

just goes to show you never stop learning. looks like just about every car has some sort of smart key these days. i was ready to rig toggle switches like i did on my '70 nova in the good ole days. not happening.

turns out she has two weeks of gaurd duty next week so the dealer can have at it. at least i'm not seeing red anymore. had to hit the weights then get together with my brother and crank up the amp. soothing.

RyanM
June 3rd, 2006, 07:12
yea mine is 96 and different from those. the unlock unlock would work for me. there was a sensor under the dash above the clutch i disconnected.

Jeep01dad
June 4th, 2006, 07:50
unplug battery for a few minutes + clean debris from around pcm = jeep starts.

scoobyxj
June 5th, 2006, 02:34
unplug battery for a few minutes + clean debris from around pcm = jeep starts.
You've got to be kidding me!! Hopefully you two figgured that out before she took it to the dealer. If not, at least glad to hear it was some inexpencive to fix.

Jeep01dad
June 5th, 2006, 05:10
no dealer required. sometimes i'd rather be lucky than good. if it's an intermittent problem like casm spoke of, i hope its far and few between.