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starter/ignition cylinder problem

DeftwillP

DeftwillP

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Round Rock TX
Starter finally gave up the ghost. It's been giving me problems for weeks, but I keep saying next week. This morning it wouldn't start. I beat on it with a hammer and away we went. This afternoon, even the grace of a hammer wouldn't work.

The problem is in the ignition too though. I don't recognize my own strength. When I tried turning the keys the whole ignition cylinder rotated farther than usual. The ACC on and start position still seem correct relative to each other; they're just angled farther back down the stock. The key on buzzer still sounds when I try to crank it. If I throw a new parts store starter on, should it still crank over?

will
 
If you screwed up the ignition switch, you may have to replace that too. You definitely need a starter though, so replace that first. If the ignition switch works properly (albeit a bit too far forward), you could just live with it.
 
Concur. Replace the starter first.

As I recall, there's a tang on the end of the lock cylinder that mates with a slot in the column, which runs the operating rod down to the ignition switch. Therefore, either the tang is twisted (fairly likely, and simple to fix) or the slot has been deformed (somewhat unlikely, and a huge pain in the arse.) If the slot is deformed, look for a replacement column.

However, if you replace the starter and you're off and running, you've got time to figure out what else is going on. I'm inclined to think the GM column was used up until about 1995/6, then Chryco.

5-90
 
Replaced the starter. No start.
Got 12 volts going to the starter.
Tested the relay home, 12 volts at 30 position.
Switched the fuel pump and starter relay, can hear the pump trying to run and the starter relay clicking.
I finally put the key to on, and jumped the 30 to 87 prong to start her and drive her home.

Jon, the tang you mentioned: do I have to remove the switch to get to it? I don't have a tamper proof torx off hand.

What's the difference between the ingnition lock cylinder and the ignition switch? Where is the switch?
 
Yes, you do. I've seen "tamper proof" Torx 1/4" hex shank bits at the hardware store - they're not the greatest (I've got a CRES set I'd gotten while I was doing maintenance...) but Vermont American isn't too bad, and not too spendy. Check around.

The "lock cylinder" is actually two parts - the tumbler itself (where you put the key) and the lock cylinder (which is the part the tumblers fit into.) The "switch" proper is down near the firewall, on top of the steering column. Trace the operating rod that goes down the right side of the column (the left one goes to the headlamp dimmer switch.)

Since you tested by substitution, the relay proper is probably good. However, it might be instructive to have a test light or a voltmeter hooked up to the small screwpost on the starter solenoid, and have someone turn the key (disable the ignition - you're just making sure the relay circuit is good.) That post should only be powered with the key in START.

5-90
 
Forgot to mention, I did that last test as well. Circuit and relay are good.

How can I tell if its the switch or cylinder?
 
If it's electrical, it's likely the switch. The lock cylinder doesn't actually do anything elecrical - it hasn't since they stopped putting the key in the dashboard...

The switch doesn't cost too much, usually, but you'll probably find it a little easier to change the thing if you take the driver's seat out - especially if you're healthy, like me. Should only be four 13m/m bolts to get the thing out, and you'll get LOADS more room. I take the driver's seat out whenever I have to do major dashboard wiring, it just makes it easier for me (6'3" and 250#.)

5-90
 
Not to go back on what I just asked, but the lock cylinder itself it still kinda wobbly. The key, when turned full on, is turned about 90 degrees farther than normal. I may have to try it first whilst buying that damn tamper proof torx.
 
Yeah - that's a mechanical issue, probably caused by not knowing your own strength (I've done similar - probably got to do with why my START circuit is tripped by a separate rocker switch now, rather than the key...)

The nice thing about the TP Torx bits is that you can also use them in place of regular Torx bits - ditto tamper proof hex bits (I've got both...) So, might as well buy a set.

You can usually pull the lock cylinder and make sure the op rod is working by putting a screwdriver into the slot behind where the lock cylinder was.

Don't forget, you'll also need a steering wheel puller and a lock plate depressor to get there - both of those should be readily available locally, if you don't already have them.

5-90
 
shit, I've really got to remove the steering wheel on a chryco column?

I've got my fsm here, but I haven't had the chance to look
 
Como se dice "that sucks"?

Couldn't I rig some kind of push button start? I put the keys in and turn to the on position and then push a button to start? Just a few wire splices it would seem.
 
Last edited:
I don't remember - I seem to have lost conscious recall of my languages...

I'm sure you could - I've done something similar in my 88. If you'd like, I'll peruse the FSM to-morrow afternoon (after I get back from Livermore) and let you know what you can do and where - what year was your rig again? I've got to make sure I've got wiring diagrams somewhere that cover you...

5-90
 
I can definitely attribute this to play in the cylinder now. I found that by shimmying the "retaining screw"(holds the cylinder in the assembly) with a screwdriver, I can turn the key and start the truck. This will have to do until I can get the stupid tamper proof bits and a new cylinder. Gotta work all weekend though.
 
Will I have to get the cylinder keyed to my keys or rekey my truck?
 
Since you probably didn't damage the tumblers, you'll just need the lock cylinder case - and you can probably just move the tumblers over.

If that isn't doable, it's going to be MUCH cheaper to take your keys and the new lock to a locksmith and have them rekey that, than have them come out and rekey the rest of the truck. I think it's doable with patience and supplies for the driveway guy, but you might want to play with simpler locks before you get into automotive (it can get very detailed...) I've done a couple rekeys on GM's, but that was yonks ago...

5-90
 
It's definitely the lock cylinder. I pulled it and found that the collar at the very bottom has a corner chipped off. When I called around to different locksmiths, they all said that couldn't key the new cylinder to my old key.

Is it possible to JB weld the small piece of the cylinder back on? I don't know what the stuff is made of or how much pressure is applied to that once corner of the collar when it makes contact to start.
 
Yech. Probably not - that's usually fairly weak pot-metal. Better to replace it.

I suppose plan B would just be to have two keys for your rig (like I do! Times four rigs...) and just replace the thing. At least, if it's not a two-part piece.

I'd be a little leery about JB-Welding that thing back together - not only it is cast, it's probably something really silly like cast zinc or something like that. Not worth bothering - I'd think it would be easier to just have a second key and mark it somehow...

5-90
 
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