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Weld cement

gopking

NAXJA Forum User
I installed tranny temp gauges on both my '98 XJs. The probe manifold on the first XJ installed fine without a leak. The other leaks every so slightly even though I used telfon tape and I can't tighen it any more. Is there any kind of weld cement I can use to seal it up so it won't leak fluid any more? Is there an aerosol kind? If not, will JB Weld work?
 
dont use JB weld it'll never come off again. In my experiences it seems everytime i say i dont care when will I ever need to take this off again, I end doing in in a week or so for some damn reason. they do make a liquid pipe dope that might work. Not sure how it wold hold up to heat though.
 
funvtec said:
they do make a liquid pipe dope that might work. Not sure how it wold hold up to heat though.

Who makes it? JB Weld?

91Limited said:
plumbing solder

I don't think solder will work because there is fluid in the lines and I know when you sweat a joint in copper tubing in a house, you can't sweat it if there is water in the line. Is it different in a tranny line?
 
No, it's not.

If you check the plumbing section at your local hardware store, you should be able to find Teflon putty, Teflon paste, or Teflon "pipe dope" - you can goop that stuff on all you want, tighten the fitting, and just wipe off the extra.

I get Harvey's Teflon Paste at the local hardware store here - you may have the same brand available - or not.

I'd also take some time to inspect the threaded fittings, and (if the threads are otherwise sound,) I'd goop it up and let it sit for at least 24 hours before I start the rig (even with the transmission in P or N, you're still running the pump.)

Permanent solutions are usually permanent, but rarely solutions. Think carefully - you may be better served by changing the fitting entirely, rather than trying to fix the one you've got. Most of them are little more than T fittings threaded with 1/4" or 3/8" NPT ports - you can probably get a replacement at the hardware store. Galvanised and Brass both hold up very well to transmission fluid...

5-90
 
funvtec said:
dont use JB weld it'll never come off again. In my experiences it seems everytime i say i dont care when will I ever need to take this off again, I end doing in in a week or so for some damn reason. they do make a liquid pipe dope that might work. Not sure how it wold hold up to heat though.

Im a plumber. Teflon tape works better than pipe dope, even the kind with sealant in it. Teflon tape is more expensive thats why we use pipe dope.(Teflon tape seals threads, pipe dope lubes threads so you can get them tighter.) There is a pipe dope w/a sealant additive in it but I dont think it would help when heat and tranny fluid is a factor.

Using solder needs high heat. It will boil the tranny fluid. (besides it likely wouldnt stick anyway.)

Gotta ask....did you put the teflon tape on in a clockwise manner (like your screwing on a nut)? And pull it reasonably taut? If loose it will work its way off when you screw in the sensor. If applied backwards it will do the same.

How many wraps of teflon? Could you try more?

Sorry I dont have an answer to help but dont waste your time on the other ideas.

I would think there would be something the parts house would have that would help. Just gotta find the right person to ask. I often find when someone behind the counter doesnt know they often say it cant be done. Keep asking others.

Im not familiar with the two types of material your working with (trans and sensor)-(aluminum? or?) but if theres a chance you slightly over tightened the sensor you may have stretched the threads.

If its accessable easily I would first try taking it out and winding a couple more wraps of teflon tape around it. If you used two wraps try four.

Good luck,
Ken

(edited)- after reading 5-90's post....The thing w/teflon pipe dope is if theres a pre determined leak (stretched threads,etc..) The dope will at best be a temp fix if you get lucky. Also be very careful it is only applied to the male threads as when you screw in the fitting the excess pushes outward. If applied to female threads the excess pushes inward.
 
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yeah, i put it on clockwise. i put about 2 or 3 wraps on. I guess tomorrow i'll try taking it off and reinstalling it with fresh tape. Should i be using more tape than that?

Also, I don't think I could find a replacement for this at the hardware store cause I had to cut out about 3" of tube to install this thing. Will there be a compression tee at the hardware store that have two 3/8" on the ends and then a port for the sensor in the middle?
 
gopking said:
yeah, i put it on clockwise. i put about 2 or 3 wraps on. I guess tomorrow i'll try taking it off and reinstalling it with fresh tape. Should i be using more tape than that?

Also, I don't think I could find a replacement for this at the hardware store cause I had to cut out about 3" of tube to install this thing. Will there be a compression tee at the hardware store that have two 3/8" on the ends and then a port for the sensor in the middle?

Example: If you can put on 5 wraps and still get it started correctly no harm is done! I find when using more wraps I pull a little tighter while wrapping it getting a little more into the threads.

Dont know what kind kind of "port" is on the tee so may be iffy. If its standard threads you can get tees that have different sizes on the side outlet.

A few times I got lucky buy rolling the teflon tape into a small tight string (?) by rubbing it between my hands. Then using the teflon string to wrap around the threads (pulling extra tight as I go) then doing one regular wrap over the string to keep it in place while screwing in the fitting. Doesnt always work but might be worth a try.
 
Be very careful with teflon tape, although it seals a little better is also can extrude little shards into the transmission and jam a valve or port.
I strongly recommend "Lock-Tite" hydraulic sealant or cylindrical sealant not more tape.
You will also have to make sure now when you remove the fitting that you get all the loose shards out. Those lines go to a valve after the filter so you have to be very car full about getting lose tape in the line.
The plumbers advice is great for water lines but very risky for anything hydraulic.
 
Loc Tite also makes a teflon type tape, stuff works good, it's kind of sticky so it's easier to wrap. It also makes a teflon type string.
Some tips with teflon tape, from a guy that does both plumbing and hydrolic. there are different kinds of threads, cone and straight. Getting teflon to seal on straight threads is tuff and it will never really tighten well. What happens is you tighten till you run out of threads and then the non threaded part stretches the female part (and really doesn't help with the seal). Or in plain langauge tighteng a cone type fitting actually tightens something. Tightening a straight cut fitting doesn't.
There is some stuff called Leak Lock (or maybe it's Leak Loc), that works well. Sets up just about as hard as you can get and still possibly remove it sometime (good to over 400 PSI probably 600).
Teflon tape, I wind it so it makes it's own cone (same with any wrap/string/hemp/whatever), one layer for the first wrap, then two, then three. You wrap it with more overlap with every turn (technique). If the teflon tape is too wide, split it down the middle. Like one old timer told me, the first wrap really doesn't seal anything, the last wrap does.
Good old fashioned Permatex works as good as anything else. Two grades hardening and non hardening (the non hardening is hard). *Hemp*, a slight wrap with hemp, then a finger full of prematex and just snug it and let it set up. Hemp is good stuff (just try to avoid any/much, inside the system, as best you can), hemp swells when most anything liguid comes in contact with it, the fibers help strengthen the bond and when you go to remove it, it tears and helps with removal.
Stretched threads and moderate pressure (under 200 PSI). Coat the threads of the male side with a little car wax (a very light coat), use a two part epoxy (metal mender). It will seal up good and can be removed. Just have to make sure it's clean, clean, clean.
When using a wrap on hydrolic fittings, I try to keep as much of the wrap away from the inside end as possible, but you need some to get it started. Just try to minimize it. I've been doing it for thirty years and haven't had any trouble yet. But the possiblity exists, that a little piece of teflon (or hemp or whatever) will get caught in a valve someplace.
When I put a tranny temp. sensor into the pan, I got a couple of large brass nuts (the thin type), drilled and tapped them for the sensors thread and made jam nuts. A couple of turns of teflon, actually stacked a little so when the jam nuts were compressed the teflon flattened and made a seal. Just snug them. I ended up silver soldering one jam nut on the inside of the pan (just being anal) not really necessary.
I also keep a roll of graphit thread (and string and rope), Stuff works as good as any high tech stuff, just like hemp does. Graphit string and rope is handy to have in the tool box, you can wrap it around a shaft, use it in place of teflon tape and make a temporary seal (even hammer it in there bit). Sometimes low tech. works just fine.
 
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langer1 said:
Be very careful with teflon tape, although it seals a little better is also can extrude little shards into the transmission and jam a valve or port.
I strongly recommend "Lock-Tite" hydraulic sealant or cylindrical sealant not more tape.
You will also have to make sure now when you remove the fitting that you get all the loose shards out. Those lines go to a valve after the filter so you have to be very car full about getting lose tape in the line.
The plumbers advice is great for water lines but very risky for anything hydraulic.
Just for the record hydrolic is any fluid and the valves in a Moen or mixing valve (water) are probably as fine as they are in a tranny. Though you are right, teflon tape *in* the system is to be avoided. And your advice about removing the old tape, before wrapping a new layer is right on. The tape often sheds worse during removal than installation. I always use a brass brush to clean the old teflon off, before rewrapping.
 
8Mud said:
Just for the record hydraulic is any fluid and the valves in a Moen or mixing valve (water) are probably as fine as they are in a tranny. Though you are right, teflon tape *in* the system is to be avoided. And your advice about removing the old tape, before wrapping a new layer is right on. The tape often sheds worse during removal than installation. I always use a brass brush to clean the old teflon off, before rewrapping.
True but in practical terms Hydraulic is not used when discussing water systems.
One other thing is you never wrap the first two threads when using teflon, it forgot that in my last post.
 
langer1 said:
True but in practical terms Hydraulic is not used when discussing water systems.
One other thing is you never wrap the first two threads when using teflon, it forgot that in my last post.
Sounds good in theory, but about fifty percent of the time, you are gonna pile up the teflon instead of compressing it, ask a plumber.:)
In pratical terms a plumber probably deals with pressures four or five times as high as you'll find in the tranny cooler lines.
Hydrualics, either moves a fluid or uses a fluid to produce work.
Plumbers and pipe fitters often do refrigeration and compressed air systems also, which use many of the same fittings.
I plumb everything from tractors and industrial machines (hydraulic), fuel injection, oiling, pumps (of every flavor), refrigeration, steam, natrual gas, fluids from water, through acid to even Milk, compressed air and pnemmatic systems. The days of a plumber being a turd herder are in the past, but heck that's important also or we would all be in a world of chit...
 
Parker Hanifin and Areoquip all say don't tape the first two threads so I'll keep doing is that way.
BTW I have been building Hydraulic Power systems for over 30 years now from 5 to 150 hp so I know a little about it myself.
 
langer1 said:
Parker Hanifin and Areoquip all say don't tape the first two threads so I'll keep doing is that way.
BTW I have been building Hydraulic Power systems for over 30 years now from 5 to 150 hp so I know a little about it myself.
Never said you didn't, but Klonestars advice is probably the way I'd do it and would likely hold. A couple of more layers of teflon, wound into a cone and not overtightend. And your advice about cleaning out the threads, is right on, sure don't want to push the flakes, left from the old tape into the lines.
My favorite project was a truck launcher in front of a local Consulate. Kind of like a dozer blade that pops out of the ground and changes the direction of travel from forword to up (or if your quick enough, makes a fairly instant barracade). Truck launcher was just our pet name for it. Load up twin accumulators and pop the solenoid, it was impressive. And actually got a trial by error, some truck driver ignored the stop sign. :yelclap:
You can get teflon tape in different mil thicknesses. When you can find it. The thick stuff (plumbers grade) doesn't do to well on finer threads.
 
IF the probe manifold uses compression ferrules for the seal, then all this discussion about sealing threads is mute. If you are using ferrules, don't reuse them when you disconect the line, make sure the tubing is free of nicks and surface flaws and make sure all parts and lines are very, very clean.
 
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