The great winch debate.

Ray H · Mar 22, 2006

Ok, maybe its not "the great" winch debate but it is something that I wonder about.
Why are there so few offroad vehicles with winches? I started this discussion on another thread, I didnt want to go off topic so it has its own thread now.
There are two threads going now that ask "if you had X amount of money to put into your Jeep, what would you buy". A winch never comes up. All kinds of suggestions such as gears, lockers, more lift, bumpers, etc., but no winch. Ive looked at the member pics. Lots of huge built up Jeeps and not even half have winches. Where in the list of priorities does a winch fall? It would seem pretty far down. That baffles me alittle because when someone new comes on here and asks what they should have, one of the first things mentioned is recovery gear, the next thing is proper tools. A winch can be both.

BRIANHO13 · Mar 22, 2006

build the rig first then add a winch.... they can be very expensive. If you ride with a large group odds are some one will be able to pull you out with a strap. They are something that completes a rig but is not really necessary to have to have a very competent rig.

Ray H · Mar 22, 2006

Its true they are not needed to make a competent rig but the way everyone goes on about safety and how not to beat up on your equipment, you would think a winch would be higher on the list.
BTW: Just my opinion but its been my experience there are two types of offroaders, those that occasionally go offroad by themselves and those that lie about it. Im not talking hardcore offroad but more off the beaten path.

BRIANHO13 · Mar 22, 2006

When it comes down to it a lot of extraction can be handled with a hilift and a come along (4ton min). granted it will take longer than if you had a winch. But would you have gotten stuck in the first place if you had gears and lockers, instead of a winch?

xj-fx · Mar 22, 2006

Winches are not worth a damn... until you need one!!

WrenchMonkey · Mar 22, 2006

Ray H said:
Just my opinion but its been my experience there are two types of offroaders, those that occasionally go offroad by themselves and those that lie about it. Im not talking hardcore offroad but more off the beaten path.

Nope. Never. The closest I've come to wheeling alone is climbing snowbanks in a parking lot.

Not just cause I don't wanna get stuck alone, although that is a huge reason. For me, much of the fun of wheeling is the "time with the guys."

Besides, as was said, a quality winch is expensive, as is a good strong bumper to mount it on. If I'm going to put that kind of money (maybe $1500!!!) into my junk, I'd much rather get something that I'll use everyday, that'll improve how my rig works, everyday. Not once in a blue moon when I'm foolish enough to wander off by myself.

Your mileage blahblahblah...

Robert

Matt S. · Mar 22, 2006

here is my honest opinion..

I thought that i wouldnt need a winch until I started wheeling REALLY hardcore stuff. So both my XJs never got them, they were on the dont need to buy list.

Last year I bought a cheap winch because all the money went to a donation. I ended up putting it on my stock wrangler because the XJ didnt have plans to wheel for a long long time.

I still have a stock wrangler and can honestly say, the winch will be THEE best mod to that jeep. I put synthetic line on it, a nice hook and accessories. built a nice bumper to put it on, and have needed it more than a few times already!

From now on out, I will always say the winch needs to be one of the first things to go on a 4x4. even stockers need them.

Ray H · Mar 22, 2006

BRIANHO13 said:
When it comes down to it a lot of extraction can be handled with a hilift and a come along (4ton min). granted it will take longer than if you had a winch. But would you have gotten stuck in the first place if you had gears and lockers, instead of a winch?

A winch isn't just about getting yourself unstuck. Ive used mine more to get others unstuck or around the yard. Actually the last two times I used it included moving a downed tree from the trail and pulling myself back on the trail without tearing up the forest floor because I had to go off the trail to go around a fallen tree. Lockers, come along or hilift would've been pretty useless.

wvredxj · Mar 22, 2006

i dont run one, but is on the list, honestly tho, if you have a well built rig, ask any of them, you will use it more to pull others out, than yourself, i personally woudl rather have a well built suspension, lockers, and a good tire.

wvredxj · Mar 22, 2006

Ray H said:
A winch isn't just about getting yourself unstuck. Ive used mine more to get others unstuck or around the yard. Actually the last two times I used it included moving a downed tree from the trail and pulling myself back on the trail without tearing up the forest floor because I had to go off the trail to go around a fallen tree. Lockers, come along or hilift would've been pretty useless.

i am guessing you tore up the "forest floor" when you where on the main path............

Ray H · Mar 22, 2006

Scrappy said:
here is my honest opinion..

I thought that i wouldnt need a winch until I started wheeling REALLY hardcore stuff. So both my XJs never got them, they were on the dont need to buy list.

Last year I bought a cheap winch because all the money went to a donation. I ended up putting it on my stock wrangler because the XJ didnt have plans to wheel for a long long time.

I still have a stock wrangler and can honestly say, the winch will be THEE best mod to that jeep. I put synthetic line on it, a nice hook and accessories. built a nice bumper to put it on, and have needed it more than a few times already!

From now on out, I will always say the winch needs to be one of the first things to go on a 4x4. even stockers need them.

I'll bet we see a pattern here. people with winches rate them higher on the priority list than people without them.
I dont consider myself hardcore by any stretch but I will never have an offroad vehicle without a winch now that I've owned one.

BRIANHO13 · Mar 22, 2006

wvredxj said:
i dont run one, but is on the list, honestly tho, if you have a well built rig, ask any of them, you will use it more to pull others out, than yourself, i personally woudl rather have a well built suspension, lockers, and a good tire.

This is true, I have a pretty well built rig, and I have a winch. I think I have only used the winch for myself 2 times, but I have used it on many other people many more times than that.

Ray H said:
A winch isn't just about getting yourself unstuck. Ive used mine more to get others unstuck or around the yard. Actually the last two times I used it included moving a downed tree from the trail and pulling myself back on the trail without tearing up the forest floor because I had to go off the trail to go around a fallen tree. Lockers, come along or hilift would've been pretty useless.

Then I believe you don't know the true versitility of a hilift.

Ray H · Mar 22, 2006

wvredxj said:
i am guessing you tore up the "forest floor" when you where on the main path............

It was a forest road with many, many, many //// vehicles before me. I dont think I did too much more to it.

Ray H · Mar 22, 2006

BRIANHO13 said:
Then I believe you don't know the true versitility of a hilift.

I think I do and if you have ever used one to move a tree or pull yourself out of a rut, you know why I said that.

BRIANHO13 · Mar 22, 2006

Ray H said:
I think I do and if you have ever used one to move a tree or pull yourself out of a rut, you know why I said that.

Like I said earlier its not as fast but just as doable.

Timber · Mar 22, 2006

BRIANHO13 said:
When it comes down to it a lot of extraction can be handled with a hilift and a come along (4ton min). granted it will take longer than if you had a winch. But would you have gotten stuck in the first place if you had gears and lockers, instead of a winch?

Only once did I get myself stuck enough that I needed a winch (it's not that I'm not having enough fun, I just try to drive smart and skirt around my potential limitations). Around here, there's so much mud and slop that I've always figured that gears, lockers, and so on will only get me so far into the muck that it's unlikely that another guy will be in a position to winch me out. There are relatively few built trucks around here (that I know of). When I get to the point that a winch is on the list, I plan to get a Harbor Freight 8K. I know, I know, but H.F.'s 8K IS the MileMarker 8K. They both get them from the exact same supplier--I'll just be saving over $100--and speed isn't a concern for me.

Matt98XJ · Mar 22, 2006

Well, 90% of the time. I wheel alone. My jeep only. My winch has saved me more times than I can count. One of my best mods.

Ben H · Mar 22, 2006

Matt98XJ said:
Well, 90% of the time. I wheel alone. My jeep only. My winch has saved me more times than I can count. One of my best mods.

I wheel more often by myself than with a group. If you get yourself unstuck a couple of times it will pay for itself. There are a lot of cheap winches out there that dont cost a grand, and one of them are on my jeep. I use it to pull t-post, tree stumps, end post out of the vineyard, adjusting my control arms, and getting myself unstuck. It is a very important addition to any vehichle if you are lazy, (like me) and don't like using a shovel and a hi-lift to fix your mistakes.

Bent · Mar 22, 2006

BRIANHO13 said:
Then I believe you don't know the true versitility of a hilift.

Hmmmmmm, let’s see here. Don’t know the value of a Hi-lift jack? I’m sure that for some that is true. In all actuality, the Hi-lift is an invaluable component to any recovery gear that you keep in the rig. Yes, they also can be used instead of an actual winch. I have used mine in that capacity many times, two and a half feet at a time. This same set up has been employed to keep the rig off of its side, tether a vehicle in the snow that is loosing it’s side hill battle with gravity. I’ve spent the night on the trail because all I had was the Hi-lift and not a winch. The next morning, in the clarity of day light that same Hi-lift and plenty of sweat, 2 ½ feet at a time, dragged the XJ over a burm and I was on my way.

I added my winch before gears or lockers, running open/open on 31” A/Ts. Stock axels are quite capable of getting into situations you should not be in, especially with a little practice. For me, wheeling is all about pushing the limits of my ability as well as that of my rig. Generally, it is my driving that results in my being stuck, and not necessarily in what could be called hard-core situations. I have no problem with stupid, sometimes stupid takes issue with me, though.

A winch is faster, safer, has a longer reach and can be used in conjunction with a Hi-lift. When your rig is on it’s side, in the bottom of a V notch with the only thing to pull off of ~60 feet behind you, the winch wins, period. With a winch, you don’t have to contend with the vehicle retreating while you try to take another bite with the jack, hoping that you don’t loose any progress to the stretch of the strap. Winches are not the end all beat all, but having one, a good one is hard to beat.

The winch, as an effective recovery tool can be enhanced by having the Hi-lift to use in conjunction. Although it is possible to pull both ends of the vehicle at the same time with a winch, it is near impossible to manipulate either end independently. In addition, this requires plenty of line; in many cases more than is available. The jack allows the end moving the lesser distance to be secured, pulled or released independently and at a controlled rate.

Myself, I will not be with out a dependable winch again; however, the Hi-lift will always be the first thing loaded prior to heading for the trail.

IMHO that is.

Motornoggin · Mar 22, 2006

I have used winches, hi-lifts and come-a-longs for extraction. The come-a-long was in the pre winch days and the hi-lift was used to extract a 73 F350 when the winch failed. It truly sucked re-rigging the hi-lift every 4 feet (had to do it about 10 times). It did work, just took forever. This same Ford once required 3 winches to get it out. A punctured radiator, broken axle shaft and soupy mud deep enough to bury 39.5 Swampers did it. It took a 12k and two 8k's to get the job done.
I have an XD900i on my XJ and have $400 wrapped up in winch and bumper. If you shop around, you can get used winches for a decent price. There are many times I was glad I had it. Sometimes, the only way to go is up, and when traction is lacking it can make a big difference.
In this pic, had I backed up any further, I would have flopped, but I could not go forward, so, out came the cable and I was on my way.

On that same trip, it took two winches to keep from losing a Zook down a hillside.

My point is...you can't always depend on everyone else having something you might need. YOU need to be prepared for what YOU are going to do.

The great winch debate.

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