Dana 44 Brake Questions

I've swapped a dana 44 for my dana 35 and I'm replacing most of the components of the drum brakes with the exception of the cylinder and related parts. In the process I'm also extending my brake lines, both e-brake and brake hose. The problem I'm running into with the e-brakes is that when I pull the e-brake it is not expanding the new shoes. The arm towards the rear of the brake pulls and releases, but the shoes do not expand. I've never worked on brakes before so this is all new to me....I'm trying to learn as I go. Do you need pressure in the cylinder in order for the e-brake to work correctly? I have not bleed the brakes yet. I thought it was strictly mechanical. Second thing...the only way I can get the drum on is if I have the adjuster screw so loose that it feels as though it would easily slide out. Now if I tighten up the adjuster screw, the drum will not go on. I know it's probably a combination of adjustments, but if any one could give me some suggestions that would be a start.

The e-brake does not depend on the hydraulics at all, but it does depend on proper brake shoe adjustment. If you are having issues with the mechanical brake, then you must have something wrong with the actuator arm itself or the shoes are improperly installed.

Try shifting the shoes upward and letting some pressure off of the bleeder screw (even though you have not bled them yet) and then squeeze the shoes inward to get them closer together at the top. Make sure you installed the short shoe to the front (I hope you know there are two different lengths of friction material on the shoes?). If you dont know this stuff, better get some hands-on help. If you dont do it right, they could lock up on you while driving and cause an accident.

Edit- redundancy issue

jeepster91 said:

I've swapped a dana 44 for my dana 35 and I'm replacing most of the components of the drum brakes with the exception of the cylinder and related parts. In the process I'm also extending my brake lines, both e-brake and brake hose. The problem I'm running into with the e-brakes is that when I pull the e-brake it is not expanding the new shoes. The arm towards the rear of the brake pulls and releases, but the shoes do not expand. I've never worked on brakes before so this is all new to me....I'm trying to learn as I go. Do you need pressure in the cylinder in order for the e-brake to work correctly? I have not bleed the brakes yet. I thought it was strictly mechanical. Second thing...the only way I can get the drum on is if I have the adjuster screw so loose that it feels as though it would easily slide out. Now if I tighten up the adjuster screw, the drum will not go on. I know it's probably a combination of adjustments, but if any one could give me some suggestions that would be a start.

Click to expand...

Your rear brakes have two separate systems: hydraulic and mechanical. One has nothing to do with the other, except the adjusting mechanism.

When you pull the e-brake handle it pulls the cable, which pulls a lever that pivots on the rear-most shoe, which pushes on a horizontal strut, which in turn uses leverage to spread the front and rear shoe in opposite directions. The point of the mechanical system, other than parking, is for redundancy in that it does not depend on the hydraulic system to function.

You replace the drum with the adjuster wheel retracted, then use a brake spoon to extend it to the right amount. After a few times, you'll get the feel of how much. First, put the drum on, next the tire and torque the lug nuts. While still on jack stands, try spinning the wheel on the side you want to adjust. Tighten to where you just start feeling resistance as you spin. Too much will result cause the brakes to heat up the first time or two out. If all the parts are new, the self adjuster should work, for a while at least. It extends the adjuster wheel as you stop while driving in reverse. Don't ask how, or this will be a full book. If you replaced the cables, you may need to adjust them too where the front and rear cables meet underneath. Cables stretch or may not be exact.

If you look at the picture I used in my post, you'll see if you have all the parts put back correctly. Hope this helped.

By the way, I'm fairly positive all the brake hardware is interchangeable from the 35 to the 44 on the same sides except for the hold down pins and the shoes due to the width being .75 in. wider.

Thanks for the info guys. I didn't get a chance to look at again yesterday but I may have time tonight. I will try and replace any parts that I haven't already with the brake parts from my dana 35 and see if that helps. I have replaced all the springs already along with the adjuster parts(adjuster screw, cable, lever, etc.) so the only thing it may be is the actuator arm/lever and the parking brake strut and spring.

jeepster91 said:

The problem I'm running into with the e-brakes is that when I pull the e-brake it is not expanding the new shoes. The arm towards the rear of the brake pulls and releases, but the shoes do not expand.

Click to expand...

There is a metal BAR that connects that arm on the rear shoe with the front shoe. There is a spring on the front of the bar, pressed up against the front shoe. The bar is just above the axle. If that bar is missing, then the pulling the e-brake will NOT expand the shoes, it will only move the arm on the rear shoe, with nothing for the arm to press against it will just move into the air and do nothing.
Is that bar there? and placed correctly?

The e-brake will expand the shoes, but not by much, almost so little you can barely see it. If the drums are way out of adjustment, the e-brake can NOT push out the shoes far enough to even touch the drums and thus you get absolutely no brake force from the e-brake.

You may need to just adjust the rear drums, once they are adjusted properly then you may see the e-brake work properly.

jeepster91 said:

Do you need pressure in the cylinder in order for the e-brake to work correctly? I have not bleed the brakes yet. I thought it was strictly mechanical.

Click to expand...

NO, the e-brake is purely mechanical, the wheel cylinder could be missing and the e-brake would still work the same.

jeepster91 said:

Second thing...the only way I can get the drum on is if I have the adjuster screw so loose that it feels as though it would easily slide out. Now if I tighten up the adjuster screw, the drum will not go on. I know it's probably a combination of adjustments, but if any one could give me some suggestions that would be a start.

Click to expand...

Adjust the brakes like AjPulley suggested. There is a groove that gets worn into the drum from the shoes, that leaves a raised lip at the edge of the drum. So, if when the shoes are properly adjusted you can't get the drum on or off, because the lip interfers with the shoes. Obviously a brand new drum with no wear won't have no lip and the drum slides on/off with little resistance.

You can use a straight edge screw-driver in replace of the brake spoon AJ was talking about. As well, before you put the drum on, you can turn your adjuster star wheel some to get you started on the adjustment, its easier than turning the adjuster a couple of degrees at time with a screwdriver thru that little slot. It may take several full turns to get the shoes even close to adjusted, so doing a couple of turns with the drums off is easier than doing them much slower with the drum on. If you can't fit the drum over the shoes, then you need to back off the adjuster until the drum can fit and slide over the shoes without scraping them and maring the shoe surface. If it doesn't slide over easily by hand, then back off the adjuster.

Once you've got the rear drums adjusted properly, there is another adjustment for just the e-brake cable, for if the cable stretches. Pull up on the ebrake, if it doesn't grab soon enough or create enough force when pulled up to the top, you need to tighten the cable. Follow the e-brake cables up from the drums to where they meet to connect with a single cable from the e-brake handle, there is a nut there to tighten to take up slack in the cable.

It is possible that the e-brake cable is adjusted too tight, someone before you didn't know what they were doing when they adjusted the rear brakes (as was the case with my XJ). You check that before you put the drums back on. Look at the arm in the rear shoe, that the e-brake cable attaches too. The bar I spoke of, between the front and rear shoes, that the e-brake arm presses on. That bar, at the rear, should fit over both the rear shoe and the e-brake arm attached to the shoe. Make sure the e-brake is off, with the e-brake off, that arm should not press on the bar, the rear shoe sould press on it. If the cable is too tight, the e-brake arm will be pulled forward and be pressing on the bar (the arm pressing on the arm is the e-brake being actuated) and the rear shoe won't be touching the bar, the arm will be forward of the rear shoe, even though the e-brake handle is off. If this is the case, you need to loosen the adjustment on the e-brake cable.

I was able to figure out the problem last night. I had the main spring at the bottom of the drum in the wrong whole which didn't allow me to get enough tension on the shoes, which in turn made it difficult for the adjuster screw to hold itself into place. With the help of my dad we made the proper adjustments and were able to get the e-brake to set with no problems. I still have to tighten u-bolts up and bleed the brakes, so there will be some adjusting left to do. But I think for the most part I understand how everything works now, and should be able to figure the rest out. Thanks for the help.

Glad you fixed it, as will the person whom you park uphill from.:helpme: