More Waggy questions

Sorry about bringing this topic up again, but cant find the info I'm looking for.
Question # 1 - I want to swap the axles out of an '84 Waggy into my '96 XJ. I've had the waggy stored at a buddies place for like 5 years, and cant remember if this particular year have the 20/44 combo, or the 44/44 combo?
Question # 2 - how should I set the castor, duplicate the Waggies castor, or the XJ's, or neither?
Question # 3 - Anyone have any idea what gears these things came with?
Question # 4 - Is the bolt pattern the same as the XJ's by any chance?
I could probably find these answers for myself by looking at the truck, but my buddies place is like 3 hours away, and he couldn't tell the difference between a starter, and an alternator, so any help would be appreciated!

1) not sure
2) find a happy medium between caster and pinion angles
3) depends, mine had 2.73.........
4) The Waggy axles are 6 lug.
5) Call buddy and have him look at it for you and call you back.

I was going to call my buddy, but in order for him to differentiate the 2, there would have to be some very distinct differences, like I said, he's the kind of guy that pays for a brake job! Anyone know the bolt count of the two, or any other BIG differences?

1.) you need to go look, or have your buddy do it. If it's a 44 the rear pumpkin will be the same shape as the front, except centered. If the rear pumkin is round it's a model 20.

2.) You will have to cut and turn the knucles if you want to set caster properly. IIRC there also some ball joints that you can get couple of degrees out of.

3.) Gears should be 2.72 or 3.31

4.)No, 6 lug

You can also use the search function, here are a couple-

http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/web_rs44.html

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=52219&highlight=dana+tech

Good luck!

mgfabpd said:

Sorry about bringing this topic up again, but cant find the info I'm looking for.
Question # 1 - I want to swap the axles out of an '84 Waggy into my '96 XJ. I've had the waggy stored at a buddies place for like 5 years, and cant remember if this particular year have the 20/44 combo, or the 44/44 combo?
Question # 2 - how should I set the castor, duplicate the Waggies castor, or the XJ's, or neither?
Question # 3 - Anyone have any idea what gears these things came with?
Question # 4 - Is the bolt pattern the same as the XJ's by any chance?
I could probably find these answers for myself by looking at the truck, but my buddies place is like 3 hours away, and he couldn't tell the difference between a starter, and an alternator, so any help would be appreciated!

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The axles should both be dana 44 unless it has been modified. The front 44 is probably a disconnect. 83-86 IIRC are all disconnect. You do not want that.

When mine was done, the castor was set to the xj and it has 4.5'' lift. No issues

2.72

No, the lug pattern is 6 on 5.5. The xj is 5 on 4.5. Personally, I love the lug pattern. Not many people on the trail with that pattern so it is a great excuse to keep your spare.

the axles will both be 44s. the front is a vacuum disco, as all were up until the wags were dicontinued. bolt pattern on all wags were 6 on 5.5. the gears will be either 2.73, 3.31, or 3.54. I do believe that the wag axles are slightly narrower thatn the stock xj's. you will have to modify the 44 axles to accept control arms, and your castor and pinions angles will be derived on where/how you do this. They should match the XJ angles or an improvement on this(adjustable control arms). check out www.ifsja.org for more information about axles and such that were under wag's.

Thanks guys, but why are the disconnent axles that bad, and do yopu think I'd be better off w/ what I have?

My opinion - waggies are not hard to find nor are they expensive. Based on this, I wouldn't bother with the Disconnect axle.

Take the rear axle and find a new front - shoot, you actually only need the housing and shafts, look around and just do it right the first time.

-jm

hippymill said:

the axles will both be 44s. the front is a vacuum disco, as all were up until the wags were dicontinued.

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Wrong. The 74-79 were all NON disconnect and passenger side drop.

80-82 were all NON disconnect and were all driver side drop.

83-86 were all DISCONNECT and all driver side drop.

87- what ever year the waggy ended were all driverside drop and NON disconnect.

They also have the same wms to wms as the stock xj, as long as it is not the wide axle waggy.

I do not have any literature that I can link you to. My research and experience turned up this info. Do a google search, go to the junkyard, etc. You will turn up the same info I did.

mgfabpd said:

Thanks guys, but why are the disconnent axles that bad, and do yopu think I'd be better off w/ what I have?

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It depends on what size tires you plan on running. I am running 36'' ss tsl sx and I keep breaking splines and u-joints which take out the ears. I just upgraded to lonfield joints and alloy shafts, that should solve the problem.

There are many advantages to the 44 over the 30 such as bigger tubes and housing, larger ring gear, larger shafts when you upgrade (where the 44 shaft necks down right before the diff it is inherently weaker than the 30), lock out hubs, bigger brakes, etc. One thing to think about is the cost after brackets and so forth. You my be better going with a 60. You make the call. I am happy with my upgrade.

afd516 said:

One thing to think about is the cost after brackets and so forth. You my be better going with a 60. You make the call.

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What 60 are you going to find that does not need the "brackets and so forth"? Considering the cost, I dont see how it is better to got with a 60... Rear yes, front no...

dmntxn77 said:

What 60 are you going to find that does not need the "brackets and so forth"? Considering the cost, I dont see how it is better to got with a 60... Rear yes, front no...

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You have to buy the brackets for either axle and get them set up (for the most part, the same amount of money and time in both). There will be the price difference between the cost of parts and the axles themselves but when it is done you have 35 spline axle shafts, larger housing, r & p, etc.

I am not saying it is less expensive but, may be worth it to someone to spend the extra $ between the two which will not be all that much for alot more piece of mind.

I am not worried about brackets, I am a very capable fabricator, I run a shop, and have access to any fab tool I could possably need to do the job.
Here's the deal, I'm a cheap bastard, I have an '84 Waggy, w/ 44's front & rear, a '79 Blazer (with whatever axles,and I have been told wrong side drop), and a '74 Bronco w/ a 44 front (drums, not sure which side drop) & a 9" small bearing rear (drums).
I would like to use somthing I already have, but if I cant, I cant.
Im definently setteled on running 36" tires (Iroks or Swampers) (anyone have any opinions on the Irok's?)
So, based on the fact that I will be running 36" tires, 80% street driving, and as of now, I am planning on ARB's, (for drivability on the street), feel free to talk me out of it so I can save some cash.
Here's the actual question, The Waggy & the Bronco rears are both decent choices, I dont have to mess around w/ axle widths, and they are both stronger than my 8.25. Which one should I go with?
As far as the front, I'd have to do a disc swap on the Bronco 44, and I cant remember what side the diff is on. I know the Waggy has the right side drop, and discs, but it is a disconnect. Which of these 2 is more worthwhile to use, if neither is worth it, what should I start looking for.

mgfabpd said:

I am not worried about brackets, I am a very capable fabricator, I run a shop, and have access to any fab tool I could possably need to do the job.
Here's the deal, I'm a cheap bastard, I have an '84 Waggy, w/ 44's front & rear, a '79 Blazer (with whatever axles,and I have been told wrong side drop), and a '74 Bronco w/ a 44 front (drums, not sure which side drop) & a 9" small bearing rear (drums).
I would like to use somthing I already have, but if I cant, I cant.
Im definently setteled on running 36" tires (Iroks or Swampers) (anyone have any opinions on the Irok's?)
So, based on the fact that I will be running 36" tires, 80% street driving, and as of now, I am planning on ARB's, (for drivability on the street), feel free to talk me out of it so I can save some cash.
Here's the actual question, The Waggy & the Bronco rears are both decent choices, I dont have to mess around w/ axle widths, and they are both stronger than my 8.25. Which one should I go with?
As far as the front, I'd have to do a disc swap on the Bronco 44, and I cant remember what side the diff is on. I know the Waggy has the right side drop, and discs, but it is a disconnect. Which of these 2 is more worthwhile to use, if neither is worth it, what should I start looking for.

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84 waggy-
pros- dana 44 s
driverside drop
60 1/4 wms to wms (same as the xj)
30 spline axle shafts front and rear

cons- 297 joint (no bigger than the 30)
vacume disconnect

79 blazer-
10 bolt 12 bolt combo
these will also be full width axles
passenger side drop
not worth the hassle

74 bronco-
dana 44 or dana 30 front, 9'' rear
which do you have?
is it a passenger or driver side drop? :dunno:

pros- the 9'' can easily be upgraded to 35 spline with big bearing
you can use the knuckles and brakes of of any of the dana 44s
to get discs in place of the drums
huge r&p

cons- wms to wms is 57''
if you get another 9'' for the big bearing, why not go with it
the 9'' is 28 spline
do want to set up radius arms?

If you do not want to spen alot of money you could go with the disconect waggy axles. That would probably be your best option with your choices.

Something that would be worth looking into would be to see if you can get a non-disconnect passenger side shaft and inner seal and put it in place of the disconnect shaft. Remove the shift fork from the vacume housing. I have not researched that option so you may look into it. I know that this can be done with the disco and non-disco 30's.

Another option is to find a non-disco 44 out of a waggy.

HTH

The early Bronco stuff will work if the front is a dana 44 and not a dana 30. They were both available on EB's. The differential is on the driver side, but is more towards center vs. your stock dana 30. It causes a slight offset on the front driveshaft, but mine works fine, no vibes. Also, the radius arms on the Bronco frontend can be used if you build a crossmember for them. The width on the Bronco stuff is also very close to stock XJ. Drum to disc upgrade is easy and gives you an excuse to get Chevy or Waggy knuckle(use chevy calipers on ford spindles and rotors) for future hi-steer upgrade. Also, Ford 9" rears are great. Tons of stuff available for them.

Thanks guys,those are the answers I was looking for. Now I just need to decide on going Waggy, or EB. The EB front is a 44, and I probably have all the parts to convert to disks in my backyard (Im a junk collector!) but the offset driveshaft might make it harder to design my links (dont want radius arms). As far as the Waggy stuff goes, I could probably use the disconnect axle, and eventually, as cash allows, upgrade to better shaft w/ larger joints.
The Waggy setup would be easier (drops on the right side), quicker (already has disks, and truck is currently upside down), and cheaper (exactly $0, as it just had a brake job before it was wrecked), so I'm leaning towards the Waggy setup. Does anyone know if aftermarket shafts are avail. w/ larger joints? Thanks again to everyone!

The FSJ waggy didn't go to the D44 in the rear until either 86 or 87. The disconnect fronts were from 81-84. But not all were disconnects, it was an optional thing.

They were available in ratios from 2.73-4.10 depending on drivetrain options. The 2.73s for 360 auto, 3.31s for towing option or 258 auto, 3.73s I have only recently discovered as an optional ratio for these not sure about drivetrain option, 4.10s were with 258 4-speed mainly in J10s and Cherokees.

The Grand Wagoneer was axed in 91. The J10 and Cherokee used a 7" wider front and rear axle than the Waggy. The J20 D60 rear was slightly wider yet, not sure exactly how much, I think about another inch or two.

The joints are 297's. Jantz, ox, yukon, bobby longfields, etc. Shafts are 9.94 stub shaft. 15.8'' drive side short shaft 32.12 passenger side long shaft. Yukon, warn and I am sure there are more that make them. You will have to specify 80 or later for the driver side drop.