Kung Fu Brakes needed E350 swap

Anyone done the E350 swap into their XJ? This has gone around a lil on POR but im wondering if anyone here has done this. Seems pretty simple ....take an 88 single dia. booster and get an early 80's E350 master (which year for the E350 master??? anyone) ...... drill out the mounting holes and your done.

My junk right now has an ABS dual booster and ABS master on it....removed the ABS pump due to swappin out the rear axle to a 44. The ABS master is way small..... I think the pump must have increased the pressure when it was a complete system.

The 92 ABS is a strange bird so there is no master that will bolt to this dual dia unit....been through the whole Rybestos book that has MC's back to the 50's, no luck.

I need to get brakes that will lock up the 33's, no way in hell thats happening now..... Im running drums in the back and D30 calipers up front......

any ideas?

Chewy
PS: not really looking to go w/ a 95+ system because the parts cost is more than the 88booster/E350 combo .....the E350 MC is stocked almost everywhere and is said to be ~ $30, compared to a 97 XJ MC that is about 70-80 at autozone...not to mention an rebuilt Booster for an 88 can be had for about $40 compared to $90-100 for 95-97 Xj dual unit. Also the 95+ system is just OK , while the E350 system is said to be able to lock huge tires on full length axles............

I am going to be doing this very soon, and to do so you will need a e350 mc from a 86 year model, at least that is what I have.

Here is a link to the swap on a grand cherokee same thing as we want to do, and has the napa part number in there somewhere!

http://www.akextreme4x4.com/tech/brake/master_cylinder.htm

If you do it first Post up your results, and I will do the same. And by the way the mc is about $30 and I already have an 87 brake booster so it should work good.

Has anyone, doing either the booster upgrade or the E350 MC, got there brakes to lock up with 33's and D30 pads/disks?

The only true brake upgrade would be larger brake surface area. I know some have claimed better braking, but from what I've read, it's only better response and not actual lockup. Just thought I'd ask the question.

The only true brake upgrade would be larger brake surface area

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very true, but I know chewys point is, he's not even making good use of the rotor surface he already has!

he needs more power to those brakes.

sorry chew, don't know anything on this, but if you know the "offset" from the mounting flange to the rod on the booster, than you should have a parts-bitch lay a master up on the counter, and measure it.....

if it fits, it fits...

oh yeah, do a search on por

ChEwBaCcA said:

Also the 95+ system is just OK , while the E350 system is said to be able to lock huge tires on full length axles............

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The key part, Full Length Axles , don't they come with full size rotors or drums?

The key part, Full Length Axles , don't they come with full size rotors or drums?

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yeah, you KNOW they do.....

chewys "disarmed" abs system is part of the problem......

its weak.....

dana 30 xj rotors have enough surface area to lock 33's......we know this.....

chewy is looking for a 40-dollar solution, and a re-main master willd o that, provided it fits his ample dual diaphragm booster. He will see a huge improvement.

all your points are well-taken, I've bragged to chewy while he was sittin shotgun one time, when i showed him how I could lock up 35" tires front and rear with 12" ford discs and 11" scout drums......

hes not looking for an axle swap.

I understand, thanks for clarifying on the D30 parts. Many have not stated their ability, or maybe I haven't ask the right question.

If D30 brake parts can lock up 33's. Then I will also be looking into a better sytem. My brakes seem fine, but I also have not had to locked them up, but I would like to know that I can.

I saw that ZJ write up and that is the same ABS system my Jeep has .... so using an 88 single dia booster should bolt right up to my pedal w/o needing a rod swap, this is the main reason I want to do this. I want to think the 92-94 ABS system probally used the same pedal assem as the non abs system (hard to imagine DC going w/ a different unit) ....which in turn used the single diaphram booster

If I go to the 95+XJ system the rods are different and it "may" fit but this is a daily driver and I dont have time to be drilling differnt mounting locations on the stock pedal assem looking for the sweet spot.

Beezil is correct when he said "very true, but I know chewys point is, he's not even making good use of the rotor surface he already has!" exactly ...my disabled abs MC is the size of something on a Honda Civic! So it needs to go.

A quick look at my bro's 87 old Cutlass , the last year of the RWD V8, and the MC/booster is huge in comparison to anything stock on an XJ. Basically proved the point that the stock XJ system no matter what, was not really up to snuff from the factory.... I mean how can you design a truck for 5 people, their gear and put in the system they did???

Im just looking for a system that will apply enough fluid power to make the brakes work well ...... The system now is not putting out the fluid required to really work the brakes..... not to mention the MC was not designed to work independant of the pump

Anyhow.....I will be doing this and taking pics and hope to do a write up. I was wondering if anyone out in land could shine some light on this.

**** Also , going from a dual dia booster to a single shouldnt do anything but change the amount of force i need to apply to the pedal? correct? It really doesnt do anything to in regards to the amount of *work* the fluid is doing..... If I have to put a lil more effort into the pushing of the pedal in order to get better brakes im all for it.....Im not a 110lb female....is my logic correct?

Chewy

i did the 95 booster swap into mine and really, it actually did make a difference. u dont gain any more braking "power", but u can get all the power u need to stop "faster" so u can stop quicker which is the goal of most of us when doing brake upgrades. i could never lock my 31's if i tried with the original setup, but now i can lock them up no problem. i'm sooo much more confident in stopping now. the swap IS direct. the pedal hook on point matches up. u need a brake light switch from a 94 xj to make ur lights still work, that was my only hang up on it. if u need some more info or u run into problems feel free to email me [email protected].

good luck bud

Brad

Chewy, I did the 95 system swap on my 94 a year ago. Complete bolt-up. No redrilling necessary.

BTW, that prop valve is sitting in my garage.

ChiXJeff

chewy already has a dual diaphragm

Anyone know the bore of the E350 MC?

How does the diameter compare to the XJ bore?

I emailed w/ the guy that did the write up and everything sounds real good...since few have done this here, if anyone. im almost commited to doing a write up to let all know how it goes.

From what the author of the link above said, I will have a far stiffer pedal and will have to work the pedal more.....it wont be soft...which is fine as i stated above.......... he also claims he can lock 36" Super Swampers up w/ no problems.....didnt get into what axles he has, but i think it stock axles and brakes from the ZJ .

Anyhow the rods should match, i dont need to swap the brake light switch out, and life **should** be good.

Chewy

Let me know how it went Chew, because like I said I want to do it as well.---Kyle

I did a copy of the navajo brake setup using a caddy dual diaphram booster (80's Eldorado) and an F-250/350 MC. I did this to replace the single diaphram booster in my 85 XJ.

There was an article on it a few years ago in 4WD and SUV.

If you already have a dual dia booster then just swap in the M/C. The only modification I made was to add a little tit (can I say that) on the plunger per the article and I needed to bend up one new line from the M/C to the Prop Valve.

Sorry Ed I don't know the diameter of the M/C but 1 1/8 inch is popping up in my head.

Good luck.

ChEwBaCcA said:

I.

.....didnt get into what axles he has, but i think it stock axles and brakes from the ZJ .


Chewy

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HP 30 front and 8.8 rear with discs.

Why is "disarmed" abs weak

Beezil, you comment that a "disarmed" abs is weak. Why would it be any weaker than the same set up before it was "disarmed"?

I did the "Kung Fu" E350 setup on my 88 XJ.
It wasn't magic for me. There is more pressure required to move the pedal, but I must still have some air in the system or something. My brake setup is better than before I swapped the master cylinder out, but still pretty poor.
I'm running XJ D44 drum brakes in the rear and stock D30 parts up front.
The E350 cylinder is supposed to be 1 1/8" compared to the stock '88s 1".
FWIW, bleeding the master cylinder was a PITA, it seemed to take forever. I ended up fabbing the bleeding lines because the "new approved bench bleeding procedure" didn't work right for me the first time.

Scott

To revive this old thread, what size brakelines are we comparing? Does the E350 van use a much larger diameter brakeline system vs. the XJ? I would imagine so, but dont know. I'm going to do this same swap w/dual diaphram booster, and was considering changing my rear line to a larger ID. Is this necessary?

rpili2001 , My ABS double booster will not accept any other MC....anyone who has ever seen one of these will know why. The bore extends into the booster unlike any MC ive ever seen.

What is involved in doing the Navajo swap? do you know what year eldorado booster you used? This way I can match up the rods......Isnt the one navajo sells w/ an adjustable rod?
What all did you have to do?

Thanks
Chewy