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Valve train clatter upon start up

afd516

afd516

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Fort Worth, Tx
I have a 1989 xj with 89 computer and intake and a 1995 longt block. The motor has 3-5000k miles on a fresh rebuild. I drove it everyday for a few months with no valve train clatter.

I then bought myself a tow rig that is now my dd. The xj does not get driven but 5-10 times a month now. I have noticed that if it sits for a few days without being started and then it gets started it has very noticeable valve clatter for approx. 2 seconds or so and then goes away and then is fine upon startup for the rest of the day.

I use 6 quarts castrol sythetic blend 10 30. It seems that the lifters are bleeding down as the motor sits for a few days. Are my rocker arms to tight? Are my lifters no good? Is there another explanation for this that I am overlooking? This is very annoying. TIA
 
I'm just guessing. As mine clatters some when it's been sitting to long, and the oil pressure seems to vary more than it used to (too high on occasion). That the relief valve in the oil pump is gummed up. The book says the valve is a pressure regulator and I'm just guessing it also is an anti bleed back valve.
 
afd516 said:
I have a 1989 xj with 89 computer and intake and a 1995 longt block. The motor has 3-5000k miles on a fresh rebuild. I drove it everyday for a few months with no valve train clatter.

I then bought myself a tow rig that is now my dd. The xj does not get driven but 5-10 times a month now. I have noticed that if it sits for a few days without being started and then it gets started it has very noticeable valve clatter for approx. 2 seconds or so and then goes away and then is fine upon startup for the rest of the day.

I use 6 quarts castrol sythetic blend 10 30. It seems that the lifters are bleeding down as the motor sits for a few days. Are my rocker arms to tight? Are my lifters no good? Is there another explanation for this that I am overlooking? This is very annoying. TIA
Click to expand...

I would not get too concerned over it. My wed diagnosis is its the lifters pumping up.
 
when you let it sit the oil drops back into the pan. When you fisrt start it there is no oil in the top of the motor, hence the noise. If you are really worried about it put a K&N oil filter on. They have anti-flowback valves built into the filter.
 
LazarusMJ said:
when you let it sit the oil drops back into the pan. When you fisrt start it there is no oil in the top of the motor, hence the noise. If you are really worried about it put a K&N oil filter on. They have anti-flowback valves built into the filter.
Click to expand...
So does every filter made for the 4.0l engine.
 
LazarusMJ said:
when you let it sit the oil drops back into the pan. When you fisrt start it there is no oil in the top of the motor, hence the noise. If you are really worried about it put a K&N oil filter on. They have anti-flowback valves built into the filter.
Click to expand...


This would be true of every other motor that I have ever built. None of them have ever had valve train clatter after sitting for even a month. I am not really worried about it. This is my first 4.0 liter motor to build so I thought I would ask.
 
8Mud said:
I'm just guessing. As mine clatters some when it's been sitting to long, and the oil pressure seems to vary more than it used to (too high on occasion). That the relief valve in the oil pump is gummed up. The book says the valve is a pressure regulator and I'm just guessing it also is an anti bleed back valve.
Click to expand...


Would a high volume oil pump have anything to do with this?
 
langer1 said:
So does every filter made for the 4.0l engine.
Click to expand...

Yes, but some filters have cheap nitrile rubber drainback valves that harden with heat, and then don't seal well anymore.

If you want to try a filter swap, use a Wix. Note that the rubber inside it is a red silicone, not the black nitrile. (the rubber you see in front of the outer ring of holes is the drainback valve).
 
steveC said:
Yes, but some filters have cheap nitrile rubber drainback valves that harden with heat, and then don't seal well anymore.

If you want to try a filter swap, use a Wix. Note that the rubber inside it is a red silicone, not the black nitrile. (the rubber you see in front of the outer ring of holes is the drainback valve).
Click to expand...


You posted the same time I did. I have been using fram. Knowing it is not the best of quality. I will try wix next. I have always used Castrol with no issues. I hate to think that the type of oil could be part of the problem.
 
one thing i noticed is that you have 3-5k on the engine and are running synthetic. your supposed to run it for atleast 6000 on normal oil before switching to any type of synthetic. but thats most likley not the issue, just thought i would say something. like stated before its most likely because you let it sit and the oil drains into the pan leaving no oil on the top of the engine.
 
haynesn12 said:
one thing i noticed is that you have 3-5k on the engine and are running synthetic. your supposed to run it for atleast 6000 on normal oil before switching to any type of synthetic. but thats most likley not the issue, just thought i would say something. like stated before its most likely because you let it sit and the oil drains into the pan leaving no oil on the top of the engine.
Click to expand...


As stated above letting the motor sit for any extended period of time does not make sense to me. I have rebuilt a few motors myself along with helping friends build thiers. Most of the motors are not in everyday cars. None of them have ever had valve train clatter from letting it sit. If this was the case, my truck would have it when I come back from vacation. My wifes jetta would have it. This is a bs response.

I agree in the fact that oil drains back to the oil pan. But there should be some residual oil left in the upper part of the motor, in the lifters, for start up, to prevent valve train clatter.

Something is going on with my motor and I need to narrow it down. Is it a big deal, probably not. But if it is easy enough to fix, I would like to.

Also I have never heard of not using sythetics on a new motor. Thanks for that bit of info. I will have to remember that next time.
 
Synthetic oils may prevent proper ring seating but it is unlikely if you break it in properly. No other known problems with using it. When you rebuilt did you check the lifter bores for excessive wear, I did not go back but did you replace the lifters, drain back should not affect the lifters unless the lifter bores are worn badly. The main reason the valve is placed around the outer holes of the oil filter is to prevent the oil which would flow back washing thru the filter backwards and flush any trapped particles back out of the element.
 
mine ticks, knock, thuds, bangs and just about every other weird noise you can think of after sitting a few hours, guess its just getting old. I'm installing a pre-oiler on my 4.6 build up.
 
afd516 said:
This would be true of every other motor that I have ever built. None of them have ever had valve train clatter after sitting for even a month. I am not really worried about it. This is my first 4.0 liter motor to build so I thought I would ask.
Click to expand...

Well my 99 with just 96k on the clock did it after sitting over a week one time. Never did it again but it was very common is the old days to hear lifter clatter on a cold start for a second. Also the 4.0L engines supposably date back to a 1929 Nash and they are not the quietest engines I've ever seen. It supprised me that one time but I don't really think it a problem. But you might want to do a search on oil filters and find the page where the guy tests different brands. Then try another brand.

JoBo
 
langer1 said:
It's either the oil or bad lifters, I would try different oil first.
Click to expand...

I say it's the oil but it's nothing to worry about. Valvetrain ticking for the first second or two after a cold start-up seems to be normal when you're using a low viscosity synthetic oil. The oil tends to bleed out of the lifters when the engine's standing so they start ticking when you fire up the engine until they're filled up with oil and pump up.
 
Dr. Dyno said:
I say it's the oil but it's nothing to worry about. Valvetrain ticking for the first second or two after a cold start-up seems to be normal when you're using a low viscosity synthetic oil. The oil tends to bleed out of the lifters when the engine's standing so they start ticking when you fire up the engine until they're filled up with oil and pump up.
Click to expand...

Your thought makes the most sense to me. What viscosity do you suggest?
 
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