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Water/mud? in oil?

H

hotrod22

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Fayetteville, N.C.
I checked my oil and saw a white substance on the dipstick which I know has to be water. But on the end of the stick there is what appears to be mud? It is not really gritty, but is the same color as rust or red clay. Kinda thick like grease. I checked the bottom side of the oil filler cap but it looks normal, no white residue or anything. The rockers look normal (looking thru the hole w/flashlight), it was all black (ready for an oil change). A couple of my friends that are very knowledgeable on these things, said it was "possible" it could be condensation from not driving it far at the time or very often either. The red color is rust from inside the engine(condensation)? Is this possible? I am going to pressure test the cooling system tomorrow and see if it holds or not. I assume if it doesn't hold pressure, it is a bad head gasket? Or crack? How much pressure? Any tips before I start tearing it down this weekend?(Helluva way to spend Christmas huh?)
 
Let me take a guess, you drive alot of short trips and never really let it cook off moisture....
The oil needs to get good and hot to cook off moisture that condenses out of the air thats in the engine. The dark brown sludge you see on the bottom of the dipstick is just the older white foam you are seeing up higher. Take a look at the bottom side of your oil filler cap, that will also have it.
It normally takes about 45 min of running for the oil to reach operating temp. One long commute in the morning and a long commute in the evening is cancelled out by a 5 minute run to lunch and back.
 
Engine not warming up, Likley short trips and/or coolent thermostat stuck open.
 
hotrod22 said:
I checked my oil and saw a white substance on the dipstick which I know has to be water. But on the end of the stick there is what appears to be mud? It is not really gritty, but is the same color as rust or red clay. Kinda thick like grease. I checked the bottom side of the oil filler cap but it looks normal, no white residue or anything. The rockers look normal (looking thru the hole w/flashlight), it was all black (ready for an oil change). A couple of my friends that are very knowledgeable on these things, said it was "possible" it could be condensation from not driving it far at the time or very often either. The red color is rust from inside the engine(condensation)? Is this possible? I am going to pressure test the cooling system tomorrow and see if it holds or not. I assume if it doesn't hold pressure, it is a bad head gasket? Or crack? How much pressure? Any tips before I start tearing it down this weekend?(Helluva way to spend Christmas huh?)
Click to expand...
Are you loosing water? If not the lots of short trips will cause the problem you are seeing. Also a no-working PCV system will also cause it.
 
I checked my coolant and it was low by about a cup. There was a small amount of light brown residue in the radiator filler neck. As I said in the first post, the bottom of the oil filler cap does not have any white/brown stuff on it, it looks ok. How long should it be at operating temp to be ok? It gets to about 180*(it is 45* here) when I get to work. This just ocurred to me, when I pressure test the radiator(tomorrow), IF the pressure goes down, I should probably take the plugs out before I turn the engine over to keep from hydro-locking it, huh?(coolant in the cylinder) Any more ideas guys?
 
hotrod22 said:
I checked my coolant and it was low by about a cup. There was a small amount of light brown residue in the radiator filler neck. As I said in the first post, the bottom of the oil filler cap does not have any white/brown stuff on it, it looks ok. How long should it be at operating temp to be ok? It gets to about 180*(it is 45* here) when I get to work. This just ocurred to me, when I pressure test the radiator(tomorrow), IF the pressure goes down, I should probably take the plugs out before I turn the engine over to keep from hydro-locking it, huh?(coolant in the cylinder) Any more ideas guys?
Click to expand...
The minium operating temp is 195 and you should get up to 215 so the water will boil out.
Normal combustion produces water and it gets in the oil, thats normal, running cold short trips is not.
Change your oil often like every three months or 3000 miles, which ever is first.
 
langer1 said:
The minium operating temp is 195 and you should get up to 215 so the water will boil out.
Normal combustion produces water and it gets in the oil, thats normal, running cold short trips is not.
Change your oil often like every three months or 3000 miles, which ever is first.
Click to expand...


Driving six hours nonstop with the cruise control at 75 in 95+ heat I've never seen it get above 210.
 
BCParker said:
Driving six hours nonstop with the cruise control at 75 in 95+ heat I've never seen it get above 210.
Click to expand...
That's only one small spot in the cooling system and is sort of an average.
The reason the cooling system is under pressure is to raise the boiling point of water (212f).
That is why also you can't open the system when it's hot without it boiling.
Even at 210 the oil temp will be much hotter, but at only 180 it will never be hot enough to boil the water off the oil.
 
RichP said:
Let me take a guess, you drive alot of short trips and never really let it cook off moisture....
Click to expand...

I'd have to agree that it's probably "too early to panic"... change the oil, and keep a good eye on it.

BUT... if you're running short enough trips that the engine never warms up (and, if it never gets over 185, I'd suspect a bad thermostat), you DEFINITELY need to change oil often (probably 3k max), and assume that you're gonna end up one of those "statistic" guys. (You know, highway-driven cars last longer than city-driven ones!)

My '00 gets up to thermostat-opening temp (195?) in about 3 minutes of backroad driving (2 miles?) from a 40-50-degree start. Even this morning (5!), it was up to temp within five minutes. That's the thermostat's job: to get the engine up to temperature as fast as possible.

Den
 
Heres a theory...Your XJ had some of that headgasket fix crap poured in it before you bought it. Thats supposed to fill the gaps where the headgasket is leaking, but often makes mud in your oil pan. It could be that crap, or it could be what everyone else is suggesting.

My Jeep came with some of that "radiator fix" crap, and my resivouir bottle was full of what looked like mud in the bottom.

Either way, good luck.
 
Well, I changed the oil this afternoon. No water came out of the oil pan, at all. Put the new oil and filter in/on, checked the level, there was still a small amount of red stuff on the tip of the dipstick. I am thinking there may be a low temp thermostat from the previous owner, causing it not to get up to proper temp. My mechanical probe is in the supply hose going to the heater core, a buddy says it will read approximately 10* cooler there?, so if that is true, it was 182* while my gauge read 172* @ 5:45 this morning after a 12 mile trip and idling for 15 mins after I got there. That tells me my thermostat is way too cool, causing my oil NOT to get hot enough to boil off any condensation. I'm gonna change my thermo with a 195* possibly tomorrow.
 
I'm having the same problem. Do You have a renix? If so have you noticed any yellow-foamy-watery-sludge Spewing out of the ccv tube going to your airbox from the valve cover.
 
Last edited:
No, mine is a H.O., I haven't noticed anything going into the airbox.

I changed my thermostat this afternoon and guess what it had in it? A 160*!!! I put the 195* in and started it and let it idle for a while. At about 10 mins it was up to 180*! It climbed to 205* then dropped down to 195* then leveled out at about 200*. Much better huh? Will the condensation eventually boil off or will I need to change the oil again?
 
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