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WJ Knuckle with XJ Pitman Arm?

Root Moose

NAXJA Forum User
Location
ON, Canada
So I spent a few hours in the garage getting psyched up to attack the build again this afternoon.

While I was comparing the XJ and WJ steering knuckles I noticed something that I don't remember ever seeing mentioned on here: the knuckle arm is not the same length between the knuckles. That is, the distance from the king pin axis to the end of the steering arm are different lengths with the WJ looking to be ~2" longer according to the Mk I eyeball.

This will mean that the steering will not get a full lock-to-lock travel using the XJ Pitman arm, no?

Is the WJ Pitman arm spline/box compatible with the XJ unit?

Hasn't anyone encountered this before? I find it very odd that the threads I just searched make no mention of it anywhere.

???
 
found something on pirate about a WJ pitman arm - they are about 3/4" longer than an XJ arm with the same drop

saw a pic on pirate comparing them - stock XJ and WJ

i know the YJ pitman arm is the same length as the XJ arm with about 1/2" LESS drop, the stock FSJ pitman arm is about 7/8"-1" longer than an XJ arm with 2" less drop than an XJ arm

and all of them will bolt to eachother's boxes...
 
XJ_ranger said:
and all of them will bolt to eachother's boxes...

If I was a prude I'd find that offensive.

LOL

I guess it is good to have options. Depending on geometry probably the most straightforward thing to do is use a WJ arm.

Still find it surprising no one has complained about lack of steering radius with this swap OR mentioned what they did to cure it.
 
Root Moose said:
Still find it surprising no one has complained about lack of steering radius with this swap OR mentioned what they did to cure it.

I find it suprising that people take the time to upgrade the d30 :D
 
XJ_ranger said:
I find it suprising that people take the time to upgrade the d30 :D
There he goes, threading the dotted line of offensiveness again.

LOL
 
what does this do to tire/ control arm clearance is it increased or decreased when turning using wj knuckles

How many inches will the wj knuckles travel lock-to-lock?

I plan to run a hydrolic-ram assisted steer.
and zj steering box.(1 inch drop pitman arm)
probably won't use a steering stablizer
 
I run the stock XJ pitman arm but I reindex it so I get lock to lock.

You must file out the double spline area then you can put it anyplace you want.


hinkley

PS, xj ranger Mine is on a D44!
 
XJ_ranger said:
I find it suprising that people take the time to upgrade the d30 :D
So, when did you pull your 30 and start swapping your 44 in? Say, August? And have you wheeled it yet? Do you have axleshafts in it yet? :rolleyes:

I've got high steer on my 30, and since August, I've played around at Prairie City, run Fordyce, run the Rubicon, and played at Hollister. And I only had to have my rig apart for one weekend.

So I upgraded the 30 because it works for what I need it to do, and it lets me go wheeling.

BTW - I'm using a stock XJ pitman, but I have the Tera knuckle and I'm not sure how long the balljoint to drag link joint distance is.
 
I never mentioned it on my conversion because I've not had an issue. My 31's are on stock 16 wheels and they will rub the control arms at lock. Personaly the WJ steering is so tight and acurate I would not want the steering any quicker, which is what would happen with the longer pitman arm.
Angus
 
Phil said:
So, when did you pull your 30 and start swapping your 44 in? Say, August? And have you wheeled it yet? Do you have axleshafts in it yet? :rolleyes:

I've got high steer on my 30, and since August, I've played around at Prairie City, run Fordyce, run the Rubicon, and played at Hollister. And I only had to have my rig apart for one weekend.

So I upgraded the 30 because it works for what I need it to do, and it lets me go wheeling.

BTW - I'm using a stock XJ pitman, but I have the Tera knuckle and I'm not sure how long the balljoint to drag link joint distance is.

good call

and i do have shafts and gear oil in it now...

now to get a front driveshaft.... hmmmm
 
Phil said:
BTW - I'm using a stock XJ pitman, but I have the Tera knuckle and I'm not sure how long the balljoint to drag link joint distance is.

Interesting. I'll snap a photo with a measurement tonight to post (hopefully).
 
Angus said:
I never mentioned it on my conversion because I've not had an issue. My 31's are on stock 16 wheels and they will rub the control arms at lock. Personaly the WJ steering is so tight and acurate I would not want the steering any quicker, which is what would happen with the longer pitman arm.
Angus
Thanks for the data Angus - that makes a lot of sense wrt rubbing the CAs.

Refresh my memory, how much lift are you running?

I think I'm going to run the XJ arm to start and then look at it again if there is an issue.
 
Just out of curiosity, is the distance from ball joint centerline to tie rod end centerline the same between the WJ knuckle and the XJ knuckle? I know you said the distance from the ball joint centerline to the drag link end centerline was approximately 2" longer one the WJ knuckle compared to the XJ knuckle. If the Tie Rod End distance is different and you plan to run a straight tie rod from the passengers side WJ steering knuckle tie rod end hole to drivers side XJ steering knuckle tie rod end hole, there will be different angles of movement between the two steering knuckles. Understand what I'm saying?

Ok, after thinking about this for awhile, I think you are probably running WJ knuckles on BOTH sides because of the wheel bearing differences, etc. so then my point is moot. :)

As for Hinkleys comment about re-indexing the stock xj pitman arm, I'm not really following why that would be necessary. I'm running a stock xj pitman arm not reindexed with a straight drag link to the top of a high steer arm on my D44 front (with the Drag Link End hole set to the same distance from the ball joint centerline as a stock xj steering arm) and get equal full lock to lock steering with the rig on level ground. Jeff
 
I am now running 5" with RE drop brackets and JKS lower arms. I you don't use the DB you might get a little more turning, but not enough to worry about. I also want you to remeasure your arms. Remember the WJ draglink attaches to the upper arm which is 6.5inches. On the XJ Y-steering the drag link attaches to the only arm which is 6.5inches. This being the same as far as the pitman to knuckle your problem is moot. The size difference in the arms from right knuckle to left will make no difference in the steering ratio. There might be a very small difference in the curve of the Ackerman angles between the axles but again no big deal. I just want you to compare the like angles and not get confused with the different types of steering. That being said don't worry about it.

Angus
 
Angus said:
I am now running 5" with RE drop brackets and JKS lower arms. I you don't use the DB you might get a little more turning, but not enough to worry about. I also want you to remeasure your arms. Remember the WJ draglink attaches to the upper arm which is 6.5inches. On the XJ Y-steering the drag link attaches to the only arm which is 6.5inches. This being the same as far as the pitman to knuckle your problem is moot. The size difference in the arms from right knuckle to left will make no difference in the steering ratio. There might be a very small difference in the curve of the Ackerman angles between the axles but again no big deal. I just want you to compare the like angles and not get confused with the different types of steering. That being said don't worry about it.

Angus

Good points. I don't have a good image of what I measured in my mind's eye anymore so tonight I'll snap/annotate an image so we are all on the same page.
 
Jeff 98XJ WI said:
As for Hinkleys comment about re-indexing the stock xj pitman arm, I'm not really following why that would be necessary. I'm running a stock xj pitman arm not reindexed with a straight drag link to the top of a high steer arm on my D44 front (with the Drag Link End hole set to the same distance from the ball joint centerline as a stock xj steering arm) and get equal full lock to lock steering with the rig on level ground. Jeff

Good question. I don't know the answer, but it works.
With WJ knuckles & a centered pitman you get unequal turns lock to lock, IIRC it's about a 1/2 turn difference.
Reindex the pitman 1 tooth to the drivers side & it's perfect.
OEM WJ pitmans are indexed to the drivers side from the factory.

Interestingly enough, When Dave T. was running crossover steering on his 44 with flat tops he had to index same as WJ junk.

Paul
 
Mark Hinkley said:
I run the stock XJ pitman arm but I reindex it so I get lock to lock.

You must file out the double spline area then you can put it anyplace you want.


hinkley

PS, xj ranger Mine is on a D44!


How the hell does this make any difference in the horizontal distance that a Pitman arm travels? That's the controlling factor in how far the knuckles travel, and thus, your turning radius.
 
CRASH said:
How the hell does this make any difference in the horizontal distance that a Pitman arm travels? That's the controlling factor in how far the knuckles travel, and thus, your turning radius.

It makes it so you get equal turns lock to lock, but you still need a longer pitman to realize the full potential turning radius.
Having said that, with my custom pitman (WJ length/XJ drop) I had to add metal to the steering stops after every few trips as I had so much extra throw that it would ware the stops down in no tme.

Paul
 
Ok, here's the images (click to enlarge each one).

WJ Knuckle:



XJ Knuckle (actually 1998 ZJ):



Here is the XJ knuckle on top of the WJ knuckle:



From a different angle (top):



Looks to be less than 1" difference.

I tried to find the PBB thread mentioned above with the Pitman arms side by side but PBB has been b0rked all day.
 
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