Valve Train Clatter: Solved!

For those that know, I have owned my new XJ ('93) for just over two moths now. I had terrible valve train clatter in 1st and 2ed gear around 3K RPM, and 3/4 at 4K. I was advised that some clatter was normal.

However, I thought it was TOO much clatter, and that it may need mechanical attention.

Well, its been 4K miles since I bought it, 1K more than I like before oil change, but I was pretty busy.

Anyway, I drain the oil, very dirty. I put on a new Fram filter and go to fill up with Castrol GTX 10W30. I look at the owner's manual which I was lucky enough to get, and it calls for *6* qts oil! I was a little suprized, I think my 351 took 6. Anyway, I top it off with 6, start her up, let the pressure pump up, lube the train, warm up a bit and off I go.

THERE IS NO MORE CLATTER, PERIOD.

I can only assume the jackleg that changed the oil before only put 5 qts in.

Thanks for everyone's help!!
That is all,
Andrew

Loose the fram and put on almost anything else except fram. I run Mobil-1 and either mobil-1, K&N or Mopar filters. Some here have had good success with Purolator and Wix. Too much carboard in Frams.

MyJeepXJ said:

Well, its been 4K miles since I bought it, 1K more than I like before oil change, but I was pretty busy.

Anyway, I drain the oil, very dirty. I put on a new Fram filter and go to fill up with Castrol GTX 10W30. I look at the owner's manual which I was lucky enough to get, and it calls for *6* qts oil! I was a little suprized, I think my 351 took 6. Anyway, I top it off with 6, start her up, let the pressure pump up, lube the train, warm up a bit and off I go.

THERE IS NO MORE CLATTER, PERIOD.

I can only assume the jackleg that changed the oil before only put 5 qts in.

Click to expand...

It sounds like you never checked the oil when you bought it.

It could have been many many moons since the previous owner changed oil.

The AMOUNT of oil should not change the noises. Either the pickup is supplying oil, or it's not. You have pressure or not. The only difference in performance would be attributed to the smaller supply - less oil means more contaminants per quart.

Most engines will run quieter with fresh oil, and get noisier as the oil gets older. And all oil is certainly NOT created equal. Castrol seems to be one of the better brands... but I've switched to Mobil 1 synthetic myself.

Den

Yeah, your right, I didnt check it when I bought it. :bangsheadonwall:

Ill probly get a Puroilater next visit, Fram was the first one I grabbed that wasnt generic. I like K&N also, but this trip to the parts seller, I was tapped for coinage. Most likely Ill get K&N next time, most likely. I also had to scrape out enough smack to get a filter wrench, I couldnt find mine, I think I gave it to my dad cause I thought Id never need it again, a long time ago. And I didnt break anything (sensor, plug, etc..) when I changed my filter so a big WooT goes out to me! HAHA!

Andrew

ever sense i saw a fram come apart inside and wase a 318 in a truck I won't put fram on anything I care about. OH and if my 93 gets low it makes more noise and the oil pressure gadge is not where it normally stays.

RichP said:

Loose the fram and put on almost anything else except fram. I run Mobil-1 and either mobil-1, K&N or Mopar filters. Some here have had good success with Purolator and Wix. Too much carboard in Frams.

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Here's a must read: http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html ............Hans

Oatmeal said:

Here's a must read: http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html ............Hans

Click to expand...

I would add Bosch and K&N to the list, though I think K&Ns are needlessly expensive at least for normal use. My Heep gets Wix because they're locally available and cheap enough. I experimented with a few different brands in my old 87, and found that the better filters really do give you higher running oil pressure, and really do have more pleats inside (I cut open a bunch of them). Wix and Bosch have thicker, stiffer paper than generic ones. K&N's paper looks completely different, and the cases really are thicker than everyone else's.

This is the one I use.

Here's the specs on it.
-Descriptions : Lube Spin-on
-Notes : Can be used with KF8 full-flow lube filter base.
-Contains : Anti-Drainback Valve
8 PSI By-Pass Valve
-Fits : 1991-on Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, 1993-98 Eagle, 1995-99 Mitsubishi, 1991-2001 Plymouth Automotive, Light-Duty Trucks; Ford, New Holland Equipment
-Replaces : Chrysler 5281090; Baldwin B34
-Thread : 3/4-16
-O.D. : 3 3/4 (95.3)
-Length : 3 31/32 (100.8)
-I.Gskt : [1] Included
-Related to : LF115, LF196 (Long Versions)

It's a well built filter.
Anyone ever heard good or bad about them?

I agree with RichP, I would stay away from the orange can of death. I personally run Mobil1 filters, K&N's are excellent too as well as Purolator Pure 1 and the wix/napa gold.

If you ever cut one open, you will find that a Bosch is pretty much the same as a wal-mart super tech, only much more expensive.Nothing wrong with the Bosch or the SuperTech for that matter, (they are both produced by champion lab's) I just think there are better filters in both those price ranges.

Sorry I have to say this

It is amazing how many people think Fram filters are "defective"
The fact is Fram is the number 1 filter brand in the US
Now any intelligent person would deduct that if they made a bad product they would certainly not be number 1. Also I have never seen or heard of a Fram filter failing due to a factory defect in 40 years but I know that nothing is perfect and I would have to say that every brand of filter has had failures
But I have heard the stories, and that is just what they are "one guy hears from another about a Fram filter blowing off an engine or falling apart internally ECT...” and tells another and so it goes
If Fram filters were really that bad they would HAVE GONE OUT OF BUISNESS LONG AGO
So why waste your time repeating old folk lore stories that have been around for years
All oil filters have to meet specs that ensure they will do the job they are designed for and that is Fact.
So I don’t think it makes a bit of difference what brand you use and I have used about all brands and to this day not 1 filter has failed
It’s kind of like the Ford vs. Chevy argument that has raged for ever!
I will tell you a secret; every brand of oil filter works

MyJeepXJ said:

For those that know, I have owned my new XJ ('93) for just over two moths now. I had terrible valve train clatter in 1st and 2ed gear around 3K RPM, and 3/4 at 4K. I was advised that some clatter was normal.

However, I thought it was TOO much clatter, and that it may need mechanical attention.

Well, its been 4K miles since I bought it, 1K more than I like before oil change, but I was pretty busy.

Anyway, I drain the oil, very dirty. I put on a new Fram filter and go to fill up with Castrol GTX 10W30. I look at the owner's manual which I was lucky enough to get, and it calls for *6* qts oil! I was a little suprized, I think my 351 took 6. Anyway, I top it off with 6, start her up, let the pressure pump up, lube the train, warm up a bit and off I go.

THERE IS NO MORE CLATTER, PERIOD.

I can only assume the jackleg that changed the oil before only put 5 qts in.

Thanks for everyone's help!!
That is all,
Andrew

Click to expand...

Congrats :spin1: ..check your fluid levels often :thumbup:


... I use Castrol GTX 10w30 & Napa Gold 1085 oil filter, and ... change both every 3k :cheers:

:cheers:

Comanchedude,
If fram's are so great why is it that if I should happen to have trouble with the Cummins in my Dodge truck and bring it in for warranty service and I have a fram oil filter in place my warranty is now void?
It is a fact that fram oil filters have come apart on Cummins engines and caused catastrophic damage, and that is why they are no longer on the approved oil filter list. That is just one example. I had my own bad experience with them as well, non Cummins related, but if you dont believe what you see here, buy one and cut it open for yourself...

I have used WalMart supertech filters before with no problems at all. And for a little over $2.00 a piece you cannot go wrong. I have even used them with the Supertech Oil before with no problems ever.You can do an oil and filter change for $7.00 that way. I'm just curious who makes their SuperTech oil for them. When doing that setup I run it 3-4000 miles before changes.
Never a problem. I also know that a persons driving style contributes alot to oil breakdown. As well as how the rest if the engine is kept. ALL other filters as well.

I don''t drive my 95 XJ all the time (got a company van and work too much) but I run my oil 3K then change the filter and add another fresh quart of oil and go another 3K then do a complete change.

It stretches things out a bit for me on the cash outflow, keeps my oil cleaner than not changing it and I get more miles from the oil. I work so much that I have only put like 10K on it this year and the wife has driven it for most of that back and forth to work.

My brother worked for an oil company several years ago and told me that oil is oil; the companies may add an additive here and there but they are all refined the same way. The only exception to the rule is the reclaimed oil that some places sell; I guess they reclaim it and put it through some kind of filtering system? I have only seen this once in a parts store so not sure.

For what it's worth that's my story and I'm stickin to it.


JC95

rlhj2 said:

Comanchedude,
If fram's are so great why is it that if I should happen to have trouble with the Cummins in my Dodge truck and bring it in for warranty service and I have a fram oil filter in place my warranty is now void?
It is a fact that fram oil filters have come apart on Cummins engines and caused catastrophic damage, and that is why they are no longer on the approved oil filter list. That is just one example. I had my own bad experience with them as well, non Cummins related, but if you dont believe what you see here, buy one and cut it open for yourself...

Click to expand...

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/warranty.htm

Also, Comanchedude, Fram may be '#1' because of volume sales (and because they tell you that on their website!)...heavily influenced by the amount of MARKETING that goes on. Saturate the market with enough influence and you'll gain a following. Sales, my friend...sales. They want to make money so they'll say what can to get you to buy their products.

I won't run them anymore because I too have had them come apart in an engine.

Napa Gold 1773 or Wix 51773 for me, thanks.

http://www.fleetfilter.com/oilfilters.html

The other reason their #1 is profit margin. Box stores pay about 99 each for all Fram filters. Markup is about 300%. The cheap filters cost about the same Wholesale but the markup is much less. Filters like Bosh Wix and K&N cost more wholesale and markup is only about 100%.

The Fram debate just won't go away...kinda like the "What color bumper" debate.......guess I'll dump my Fram filter and paint my bumpers "Fram Orange".....lol.
I've never had a prob. with Fram filters and I 've changed a few in my 57 yrs.but after reading the results of the test done on a number of the same application oil filters I will change to something else on my next L.O.F.
My '90 Xj 4.0 does make a tad (would wake the dead) bit of noise upon start-up, never thought much about an oil filter causing this (attributed it 175K miles). Will be changing oil next weekend and will keep e-1 posted if I notice any diff.

Other things that come into play is the type of oiling system.
There are systems that connect the filer "side stream", so the oil is filtered by the bypass circut.
Mopar and others use inline filter system so all the oil first goes through the filter then to the engine.
If a filter fails in a bypass system the only thing that happens is your oil is not filtered.
If the filter fails in a inline system your engine don't get oil.

RichP said:

Loose the fram and put on almost anything else except fram. I run Mobil-1 and either mobil-1, K&N or Mopar filters. Some here have had good success with Purolator and Wix. Too much carboard in Frams.

Click to expand...

I work in a auto parts store and the local racers ( circle track) told me that Frams are prone to collapsing in extreme situations. Not a good filter to use for an offroader. I use K&N oil filters. They have an antiflowback valve in them to keep oil higher in the engine for start-up.

my dad and I were fram users for years (him many more than me!) but after the current finding over the last 5 years or so we dont use them anymore. From what I have read they use to be quality but are now junk. As far as #1 selling or whatever it is because of the market saturation. Everywhere you go, even wally worlds, have fram everything. Alot of people either bought fram back when they were better products and never stop using them because they didnt realize the slip in quality, or dont know the difference and think they are good because they are so readily available.

I use to use all motorcraft when I worked in the dealer, but recently switched to purolators. I did notice the quicker and better build up of oil pressure when switching from fram to motorcraft, also that there was alot more oil in motorcrafts at change out. These 2 facts were hard to ignore.