How much stronger IS 23- vs 21-spline tranny?

Yucca-Man · Sep 18, 2005

Mission: Replace a cracked AW-4 bellhousing and possibly the entire tranny.

Secondary mission: Install PORC SYE.

Stopping points:

I just realized after dropping my t-case that the replacement AW-4 I have has a 21-spline output. My '96 NP231 of course has a 23-spline input...

The current AW-4 leaks. From somewhere. I haven't gotten it out to find out what the entire story is with it, but the fact that the bellhousing is cracked could mean a cracked tranny body too.

The "replacement" AW-4 is obviously from an older XJ; it is said to run well although it doesn't move immediately when started on cold mornings. This would be a pump issue, no?

I have the front half and most of the guts of a YJ 231 so it's got the 21-spline input like my replacement tranny.

My question is this: At this stage of a dragged-out tranny installation would it be easier to make the 21-spline t-case work or is it possible to swap the output of the Aw-4s...or should I just shoot the bastige and go buy a Kia?? :repair:

XJ_ranger · Sep 18, 2005

Yucca-Man said:
Mission: Replace a cracked AW-4 bellhousing and possibly the entire tranny.

Secondary mission: Install PORC SYE.

Stopping points: I just realized after dropping my t-case that the replacement AW-4 I have has a 21-spline output. My '96 NP231 of course has a 23-spline input...

The current AW-4 leaks. From somewhere. I haven't gotten it out to find out what the entire story is with it, but the fact that the bellhousing is cracked could mean a cracked tranny body too.

The "replacement" AW-4 is obviously from an older XJ; it is said to run well although it doesn't move immediately when started on cold mornings. This would be a pump issue, no?

I have the front half and most of the guts of a YJ 231 so it's got the 21-spline input like my replacement tranny.

My question is this: At this stage of a dragged-out tranny installation would it be easier to make the 21-spline t-case work or is it possible to swap the output of the Aw-4s...or should I just shoot the bastige and go buy a Kia?? :repair:

buy a Kia...

this is what i went through to swap the internals of the t-case

http://www.opiebennett.com/images/Jeep/D4-ford9-swap/Day 15/np231.htm

not too bad really

i have no idea how to take apart a Aw4 and havent ever taken one off a vehicle - so am of little help there....

Yucca-Man · Sep 18, 2005

Yeah...I read that this morning as a matter of fact. That's one reason I'm rolling my eyes at the idea of having to swap guts just to get it working. I'm not even convinced that the computer is going to be happy with an older tranny like this. Search hasn't helped resolve that one.

XJ_ranger · Sep 18, 2005

i thought that the only issue was a cracked bellhousing? shouldnt you be able to swap the bellhousing with the same tranny?

maybe its time for a BrettM shifter - so the computer doesnt have to think at all then

also - might be a good idea to swap a new CPS in at the same time - while you have it all out and it is easay to get to - save yourself the work for another 150k or so?

Yucca-Man · Sep 18, 2005

The bellhousing is definitely an issue and is the primary reason I am doing this work, everything else is secondary. I don't know what effect the RE driveshaft vibrations have had on the internals of the tranny since something caused the crack in the bell. Yeah, CPS is on the "to-do" list as well.

I'm going to go have a :beer:

MachineMan · Sep 18, 2005

Here's another write up on how to change the input gear in the T-case. Its not that big of a job, just make sure you get the correct T-case input gear. There are different lengths and some of the newer ones have a differnt gear cut.

http://www.4x4trailhunters.com/article.php?id=20

BrettM · Sep 19, 2005

AW4s from 87-96 are plug and play electronically

atx xj · Sep 19, 2005

damn xj-ranger u got some serious red hair...

if i was in the same predicament id go out and find a 23 spline aw4 and blow the extra $$ to make it work right. swapping the internals of a t-case r a bitch, as rnger showed.

XJ_ranger · Sep 19, 2005

atx xj said:
damn xj-ranger u got some serious red hair...

if i was in the same predicament id go out and find a 23 spline aw4 and blow the extra $$ to make it work right. swapping the internals of a t-case r a bitch, as rnger showed.

no it isnt - that took all of 5 hours - and most of it was me messing around going - "this is cool! so thats how my t-case works"

i could probably swap the planataries on 2 t-cases in about 1 hour and have two complete RTV sealed t-cases ready to bolt back into their jeeps.

taking the t-case off took about 1/2 hour and putting it back on took about 1 hour (by myself)

(i was being sarcastic when i said to buy a kia...)

Yucca-Man · Sep 19, 2005

BrettM said:
AW4s from 87-96 are plug and play electronically

Thanks Brett - I should have thought to talk to you first about the electronics.

And Opie? You really DO have some seriously red hair...

Kittrell · Sep 19, 2005

Yucca-Man said:
And Opie? You really DO have some seriously red hair...

Cute, isn't he?

:roflmao:

Yucca-Man · Sep 19, 2005

...hmmm....what IS that saying about "red-headed stepchild" ????

atx xj · Sep 19, 2005

XJ_ranger said:
no it isnt - that took all of 5 hours - and most of it was me messing around going - "this is cool! so thats how my t-case works"

i could probably swap the planataries on 2 t-cases in about 1 hour and have two complete RTV sealed t-cases ready to bolt back into their jeeps.

taking the t-case off took about 1/2 hour and putting it back on took about 1 hour (by myself)

(i was being sarcastic when i said to buy a kia...)

touche...5 hours seems like a while to spend and i know id take my time dickin around to. im sayin id go with the 23 spline anyways for strength (not that i cud break a 21 spline but it makes my dick feel bigger to think that i have more splines).

Kittrell · Sep 19, 2005

atx xj said:
............but it makes my dick feel bigger to think that i have more splines.

:roflmao:

OverlandZJ · Sep 19, 2005

BrettM said:
AW4s from 87-96 are plug and play electronically

He'll have to swap out the manual speedo gear and housing from the 21 spline AW4 to work with his 96 elec speedo assembly.

Personally i'd look for another AW4 in a 23 spline variety.

Yucca-Man · Sep 19, 2005

John B said:
He'll have to swap out the manual speedo gear and housing from the 21 spline AW4 to work with his 96 elec speedo assembly.

Can you expound on htis a little more? I thought the only speedo gear involved was the one from the t-case output and since I'm doing the PORC (that sounds soo wrong) that's going on whatever t-case I do end up with anyhow.

outlander · Sep 19, 2005

Yucca-Man said:
...hmmm....what IS that saying about "red-headed stepchild" ???? [/QUOTE

that's the new hair dye,it's called.....ATF!!

OverlandZJ · Sep 19, 2005

Yucca-Man said:
Can you expound on htis a little more? I thought the only speedo gear involved was the one from the t-case output and since I'm doing the PORC (that sounds soo wrong) that's going on whatever t-case I do end up with anyhow.

Dude....disregard that. Brain Fart.... :wave:

XJ_ranger · Sep 19, 2005

ask Lou what he thinks of my red hair at the next chapter meeting...

the sadest part of blowing up the t-cases was the loss of the Red Line Oil synthetic ATF that had like 3000 miles on it..

that was cool stuff!

if you are cool enough to be on MWXJ - you'd know that i cut it...

http://www.midwestxj.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=265

and the continuation in the Den....

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=63762

Off Topic anyone?

How much stronger IS 23- vs 21-spline tranny?

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