crazy4mopar
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Poway Ca,
My MPG SUCKS!!! I found this on another board check it out
http://pesn.com/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/
http://pesn.com/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/
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Acetone will increase gas mileage?!?!?
- Thread starter crazy4mopar
- Start date
old_man
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Loveland, Colorado
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
Having spent some time in the commercial fuel additives business, maybe I can shed some light on this. The only difference between regular and premium fuels are the additives. They come out of the same spigot at the refinery. Octane is not a measure of the amount of energy in the fuel, but a measure of knock resistance. Surprisingly enough one of the ways octane is measured is actually running it in a reference engine under precise loads.
Having said all of that, there are two main additives that are used, acetone and toluene. Other items like stoddard solvent are also used. Stoddard solvent is mainly used as a fuel system cleaner, but the acetone and toluene also play a part in the process, but are mainly used to reduce the knock potential of the fuel. I used to run an ounce of each per each 10 gallons of fuel. Yes it helped the fuel mileage, but mainly from the perspective of keeping things clean.
Having spent some time in the commercial fuel additives business, maybe I can shed some light on this. The only difference between regular and premium fuels are the additives. They come out of the same spigot at the refinery. Octane is not a measure of the amount of energy in the fuel, but a measure of knock resistance. Surprisingly enough one of the ways octane is measured is actually running it in a reference engine under precise loads.
Having said all of that, there are two main additives that are used, acetone and toluene. Other items like stoddard solvent are also used. Stoddard solvent is mainly used as a fuel system cleaner, but the acetone and toluene also play a part in the process, but are mainly used to reduce the knock potential of the fuel. I used to run an ounce of each per each 10 gallons of fuel. Yes it helped the fuel mileage, but mainly from the perspective of keeping things clean.
nhrocker
Jackstand wheeler
- Location
- Claremont, NH
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
So from your experience old_man, would you suggest the use of acetone? The way they state it in the article it sounds too good to be true, but anything I can do with gas prices going up to save gas would be good.
So from your experience old_man, would you suggest the use of acetone? The way they state it in the article it sounds too good to be true, but anything I can do with gas prices going up to save gas would be good.
BigDawgz
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- East CENTRAL INDIANA
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
Some of my dad's friends have some of the big....High Dollar...speed boats. The cigarette type with single...and sometimes double....built, big-cube motors on them. They use Acetone to up the Octane rating of their fuels. They claim that they can run a lower octane fuel....without detonation problems....when they add the right percentage of Acetone. These guys aren't just pouring some in....several of them are chemical engineers and know what they're doing. They've figured out the exact amount...in ounces...to add to say a 55 gal drum of fuel... to get their best octane #'s...cheaply. So ...I guess if a guy knows what he's doing...this can be done. They've been doing it for around 4 years now...I believe.
Aron
Some of my dad's friends have some of the big....High Dollar...speed boats. The cigarette type with single...and sometimes double....built, big-cube motors on them. They use Acetone to up the Octane rating of their fuels. They claim that they can run a lower octane fuel....without detonation problems....when they add the right percentage of Acetone. These guys aren't just pouring some in....several of them are chemical engineers and know what they're doing. They've figured out the exact amount...in ounces...to add to say a 55 gal drum of fuel... to get their best octane #'s...cheaply. So ...I guess if a guy knows what he's doing...this can be done. They've been doing it for around 4 years now...I believe.
Aron
sweetjeep
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
Rocker: No, don't bother. Getting Acetone in enough quantity is typically a hassle, in addition, I believe the price/per possible mileage gain isn't worth the effort.
Typically gas is pretty good no matter where you go these days and getting dirty gas isn't a huge issue.
Also, ironically, higher octane gas will lower your mileage unless you motor needs it.
On the other hand, you get better mileage no matter what because you are adding a flammable liquid to the tank, thereby diluting the gas and using less per mile. (OK.. I'm just being silly now!)
Rocker: No, don't bother. Getting Acetone in enough quantity is typically a hassle, in addition, I believe the price/per possible mileage gain isn't worth the effort.
Typically gas is pretty good no matter where you go these days and getting dirty gas isn't a huge issue.
Also, ironically, higher octane gas will lower your mileage unless you motor needs it.
On the other hand, you get better mileage no matter what because you are adding a flammable liquid to the tank, thereby diluting the gas and using less per mile. (OK.. I'm just being silly now!)
nhrocker
Jackstand wheeler
- Location
- Claremont, NH
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
Through the shop my dad owns I have easy access to acetone. It would still be a hassle to add it every time I fill up. I guess if gas prices go through the roof I'll give it a try, but for now I won't bother.
Through the shop my dad owns I have easy access to acetone. It would still be a hassle to add it every time I fill up. I guess if gas prices go through the roof I'll give it a try, but for now I won't bother.
- Location
- Coshocton, OH
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
Kind of funney how they can afford a $200,000 boat, but two cheep to buy the premium fuel to run in it.:wierd:
BigDawgz said:
Kind of funney how they can afford a $200,000 boat, but two cheep to buy the premium fuel to run in it.:wierd:
BigDawgz
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- East CENTRAL INDIANA
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
Yea...that's what I said....people can be funny about the smallest of things. I've rode in a few of them too...all they do is sit around in a big circle.....waiting to race somebody new. It costs too much to just go "boating" in one of these things...LOL. They could care less about giving 50 to 75K for just a HULL....but they don't like paying for the expensive fuel if they can find a shortcut that works! They've even dyno tested it to make sure that they didn't lose a precious pony or two...LOL.
Aron
Yea...that's what I said....people can be funny about the smallest of things. I've rode in a few of them too...all they do is sit around in a big circle.....waiting to race somebody new. It costs too much to just go "boating" in one of these things...LOL. They could care less about giving 50 to 75K for just a HULL....but they don't like paying for the expensive fuel if they can find a shortcut that works! They've even dyno tested it to make sure that they didn't lose a precious pony or two...LOL.
Aron
BlackXJ4x4
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Bethesda, MD
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
Speaking from a non-engineer standpoint it seems like a hassle to measure out each time but if the prices at the pump keep going up like they are...
I would just invest in the oil companies
Caleb
Speaking from a non-engineer standpoint it seems like a hassle to measure out each time but if the prices at the pump keep going up like they are...
I would just invest in the oil companies
Caleb
BrettM
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- michifornia
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
okay, so if it increases mileage by 15-35%, even at 15% that would save about $3 on 10 gallons. Certainly just a few ounces of acetone is much cheaper than $3, so it sounds like a great deal...
so... what's the catch? is 15% unrealistic?
okay, so if it increases mileage by 15-35%, even at 15% that would save about $3 on 10 gallons. Certainly just a few ounces of acetone is much cheaper than $3, so it sounds like a great deal...
so... what's the catch? is 15% unrealistic?
BigDawgz
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- East CENTRAL INDIANA
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
The MAIN reason the guys I'm talking about did it.....was.....because the had LOTS of Acetone for FREE. Somebody had some good fringe benefits somewhere.
I know a couple of guys who work on F1 teams and they get free remnant barrels of race fuel....sometimes they have like 20 or so gallons in them. The teams don't really pay for this fuel anyways....it's sponsored...so if a barrel is opened at a track...it's used or pitched..... regardless of the amount left....most of the times. I guess they got something against running the fuel after it's been exposed to the air....for any length of time. It must not be worth the risk of contaminants...or lower octane...or whatever...to them.
Aron
The MAIN reason the guys I'm talking about did it.....was.....because the had LOTS of Acetone for FREE. Somebody had some good fringe benefits somewhere.
I know a couple of guys who work on F1 teams and they get free remnant barrels of race fuel....sometimes they have like 20 or so gallons in them. The teams don't really pay for this fuel anyways....it's sponsored...so if a barrel is opened at a track...it's used or pitched..... regardless of the amount left....most of the times. I guess they got something against running the fuel after it's been exposed to the air....for any length of time. It must not be worth the risk of contaminants...or lower octane...or whatever...to them.
Aron
5-90
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Hammerspace
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
I'm wondering about that myself - I take it you saw the post on "Strokers?"
I'd have to dig up my O-chem books (which may not be in this state - DAMN!) and look into this. It seems that it is not the boost to the octane rating that is at issue, but the more effective vapourisation of fuel. Given California fuel prices, I'm nearly willing to try anything!
I'm digging into this a bit more. I usually have acetone around as a heavy-duty cleaner (a gallon typically lasts four or five years for me before it's too cruddy to use) so I don't worry about keeping it around. With the very low concentrations (something like .035%-.72% as a bracket) it can't cost too much. If it works, it should pay for itself.
I'll have to crunch some numbers to come up with dilution rates in absolute numbers (rather than relative percentages) and try it out...
5-90
I'm wondering about that myself - I take it you saw the post on "Strokers?"
I'd have to dig up my O-chem books (which may not be in this state - DAMN!) and look into this. It seems that it is not the boost to the octane rating that is at issue, but the more effective vapourisation of fuel. Given California fuel prices, I'm nearly willing to try anything!
I'm digging into this a bit more. I usually have acetone around as a heavy-duty cleaner (a gallon typically lasts four or five years for me before it's too cruddy to use) so I don't worry about keeping it around. With the very low concentrations (something like .035%-.72% as a bracket) it can't cost too much. If it works, it should pay for itself.
I'll have to crunch some numbers to come up with dilution rates in absolute numbers (rather than relative percentages) and try it out...
5-90
jwtrapper
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Wetmore, CO
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
If they are running methanol once the barrel is opened it is exposed to the moisture in the air. Methanol will collect the moisture and down grade the fuel. This might be why they just "pitch" the rest of the barrel.
I could be way off but I do know from when I was making biodiesel that you wanted good methanol that had not been exposed to the air for this reason.
BigDawgz said:
If they are running methanol once the barrel is opened it is exposed to the moisture in the air. Methanol will collect the moisture and down grade the fuel. This might be why they just "pitch" the rest of the barrel.
I could be way off but I do know from when I was making biodiesel that you wanted good methanol that had not been exposed to the air for this reason.
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
OK, tell ya what... I have to go to Home Despot this afternoon anyway, so I'll volunteer to be the guinea pig on this one and blow $3 on a gallon of 100% Acetone. Would 2oz. be a reasonable amount to add to a 20-gallon tank?
2000 Limited, AW4, 4WD, red, blown speaker, etc. etc. etc.
OK, tell ya what... I have to go to Home Despot this afternoon anyway, so I'll volunteer to be the guinea pig on this one and blow $3 on a gallon of 100% Acetone. Would 2oz. be a reasonable amount to add to a 20-gallon tank?
2000 Limited, AW4, 4WD, red, blown speaker, etc. etc. etc.
old_man
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Loveland, Colorado
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
The rates we used were 1 oz of Toluene and 1 oz of Acetone per 10 gallons. We just premixed it and used a clear squeeze bottle that was not going to melt from the acetone. We also used Stoddard Solvent, which helped keep the volitility of the mix in the bottle down just a touch as well.
I don't screw with it any more. The cleaning effect is the biggest gas mileage gain of the bunch. I just run a can of BG44K every 10k miles. It keeps injectors working great. Don't bother with the STP crap or most of the others. MTBE is the oxygenating crap they add to the fuels now days. It is what leaves the varnish buildup in injectors and the intake manifold. STP is mostly MTBE, the theory being that if you add enough it will desolve the layers already there. Like that really works:laugh3: BG44K is the closest thing to a miracle in the bottle that I have ever seen. I did a bore scope analysis on my old motor, then ran a can of BG44K and all the carbon on top of the piston and the buildup on the back of the exhaust valves was gone. Fuel injector efficiency is probably one of the biggest factors in gas mileage drop off. They get a coat of the varnish inside and the injectors just don't spray a fine mist like they are supposed to. While the orifices in the injectors can be eroded over time, virtually every problem is due to clogging, which the BG44K will get rid of.
BG44k runs about $18 a can. Not cheap, but well worth it.
The rates we used were 1 oz of Toluene and 1 oz of Acetone per 10 gallons. We just premixed it and used a clear squeeze bottle that was not going to melt from the acetone. We also used Stoddard Solvent, which helped keep the volitility of the mix in the bottle down just a touch as well.
I don't screw with it any more. The cleaning effect is the biggest gas mileage gain of the bunch. I just run a can of BG44K every 10k miles. It keeps injectors working great. Don't bother with the STP crap or most of the others. MTBE is the oxygenating crap they add to the fuels now days. It is what leaves the varnish buildup in injectors and the intake manifold. STP is mostly MTBE, the theory being that if you add enough it will desolve the layers already there. Like that really works:laugh3: BG44K is the closest thing to a miracle in the bottle that I have ever seen. I did a bore scope analysis on my old motor, then ran a can of BG44K and all the carbon on top of the piston and the buildup on the back of the exhaust valves was gone. Fuel injector efficiency is probably one of the biggest factors in gas mileage drop off. They get a coat of the varnish inside and the injectors just don't spray a fine mist like they are supposed to. While the orifices in the injectors can be eroded over time, virtually every problem is due to clogging, which the BG44K will get rid of.
BG44k runs about $18 a can. Not cheap, but well worth it.
crazy4mopar
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Poway Ca,
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
the study says 2-3 oz. per 10 gal.
I'm going to try 4 oz. with 20 gal in my 98 chevy PU
the study says 2-3 oz. per 10 gal.
I'm going to try 4 oz. with 20 gal in my 98 chevy PU
sweetjeep
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
I'd safely say we can predict the results now. Little to nothing. But $3 a gallon isn't as bad as I would have expected.
Nonetheless.. if it works how much longer you figure Acetone will cost $3 a gallon?! I say 15 minutes! hahaha
As for the BG44k, where does one get it? I have heard before it's rather lovely stuff. But the answer to where do you get it is frequently "I don't know anymore."
I'd safely say we can predict the results now. Little to nothing.
But $3 a gallon isn't as bad as I would have expected.Nonetheless.. if it works how much longer you figure Acetone will cost $3 a gallon?!
I say 15 minutes! hahahaAs for the BG44k, where does one get it? I have heard before it's rather lovely stuff. But the answer to where do you get it is frequently "I don't know anymore."
old_man
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Loveland, Colorado
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
My local ACE hardware store sells toluene right next to the acetone.
My local ACE hardware store sells toluene right next to the acetone.
Grifter144
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- SE Michigan
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
so if i run a couple ounces of acetone for my drive to indy this weekend but no toloune will i be alright or should i go get toloune and mix the two together. if so am i adding 4 ounces of each or a total of 4 ounces combined to the tank.. i am running a 00 xj w/ 4.5 inches of lift and 31's on stock 3.55's any help would be nice. note i intend to swap in 4.10s when i have more money.
so if i run a couple ounces of acetone for my drive to indy this weekend but no toloune will i be alright or should i go get toloune and mix the two together. if so am i adding 4 ounces of each or a total of 4 ounces combined to the tank.. i am running a 00 xj w/ 4.5 inches of lift and 31's on stock 3.55's any help would be nice. note i intend to swap in 4.10s when i have more money.