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Tap into trans. line to change fluid?

jlex

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Pennsylvania
I want to tap into the transmission lines on my '98XJ & use the transmission's pump, while running, to expel all the old fluid while it's picking up new fluid. Has anyone done this & can you give me the how-to? Thanks.
jlex.
 
I suppose you could do it but, the fluid that goes back into the trans. would mix with the dirty fluid that is in there and you would go thru alot more new fluid before you ended up with clean fluid, than if you had drained and filled. Mine has both a trans. pan drain plug and a converter drain plug that can be removed to drain most the fluid. Of course the pan has to be dropped to change the filter.
 
It's the transmission pump that pulls the new fluid in. Instead of pushing the fluid thru the radiator for cooling, you should be able to have the old fluid pushed thru the one line, while the other line picks up fresh fluid.
I know that I can buy lines for my Volvo from IPD to do the job; I also had another car that I took to an oil change place & that's how they did it (but I wasn't watching, unfortunately) using the transmission while the engine was running (not a flush).
I don't think there's much mix between the new from the takeup line and that going out to be cooled by the radiator.
jlex.
 
jlex said:
It's the transmission pump that pulls the new fluid in. Instead of pushing the fluid thru the radiator for cooling, you should be able to have the old fluid pushed thru the one line, while the other line picks up fresh fluid.
I know that I can buy lines for my Volvo from IPD to do the job; I also had another car that I took to an oil change place & that's how they did it (but I wasn't watching, unfortunately) using the transmission while the engine was running (not a flush).
I don't think there's much mix between the new from the takeup line and that going out to be cooled by the radiator.
jlex.
The pump pushes fluid through the radiator; the suction side is through the pickup filter in the pan.

Your Volvo has an external pump is why it worked with it.
 
In other words, you think there has to be a closed loop for the suction side to work.... interesting. I got the idea from another poster in this forum who said he did it that way, but when I asked about it, I didn't get a reply. I'm going to hunt up that old post & see if I can email him for more information. Thanks.
jlex.
 
Re: 30K AW4 Simple Question Drain vs. Drop vs. Flush

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"I've always done a change from the cooler lines - refill as it pumps itself out. You can see when the new stuff starts coming out, and based on volume, it's the full capacity of fluid. I've got hundreds of thousands of miles on mostly Fords (and my XJ) and never a problem with that method.

These aren't abused ones though, but anywhere from first fluid change to 250k miles on them. On older ones I'll add a bit of Trans-X and run it for a while first."


The above was posted in July, 2004 by SkipC. I'll try to contact him to see how he does it on his jeep.

jlex.
 
jlex said:
In other words, you think there has to be a closed loop for the suction side to work.... interesting. I got the idea from another poster in this forum who said he did it that way, but when I asked about it, I didn't get a reply. I'm going to hunt up that old post & see if I can email him for more information. Thanks.
jlex.
Yep You can pump out the old fluid as you add fresh through the filler, but there is no suction on either radiator line.
 
Sent a message to Skipc & I'll post any reply I get.
Thanks, Langer1... sounds like a possibility as long as you're replacing fluid at the same rate as its being pumped out (would probably need a good measured bucket to make sure)
Only problem is, would the fresh fluid be pumped out as soon as its introduced to the unit, or would it mix thereby losing the effect? I don't know how these units work with new fluid as its filled... do you?
jlex.
 
87xjco said:
I suppose you could do it but, the fluid that goes back into the trans. would mix with the dirty fluid that is in there and you would go thru alot more new fluid before you ended up with clean fluid, than if you had drained and filled. Mine has both a trans. pan drain plug and a converter drain plug that can be removed to drain most the fluid. Of course the pan has to be dropped to change the filter.

I went through about 10 qts before the fluid coming out looked new. I bought a case of 12 and used the remaining for my transfer case.
 
jlex said:
Sent a message to Skipc & I'll post any reply I get.
Thanks, Langer1... sounds like a possibility as long as you're replacing fluid at the same rate as its being pumped out (would probably need a good measured bucket to make sure)
Only problem is, would the fresh fluid be pumped out as soon as its introduced to the unit, or would it mix thereby losing the effect? I don't know how these units work with new fluid as its filled... do you?
jlex.
.
If your flushing your transmission you will need more fluid than if your were just changing it. If you don’t want to flush it, pump it all out first, put the line back and refill it.
 
langer1 said:
.
If your flushing your transmission you will need more fluid than if your were just changing it. If you don’t want to flush it, pump it all out first, put the line back and refill it.

Are you saying to disconnect the pressure line, turn on the engine & let all the fluid get pumped out until its empty (then refill)??? Wouldn't this ruin the transmission to allow it to run dry?
Jlex.
 
Thayer said:
I went through about 10 qts before the fluid coming out looked new. I bought a case of 12 and used the remaining for my transfer case.

Thayer: I was expecting to use a lot more fluid... that's the reason for going thru all this trouble. It sounds like you've gone thru it before... just how exactly are you pumping out all the old & replacing it with fresh fluid? Is the return line picking up the new fluid by itself, or are you feeding it back into the system some way?

Jlex.
 
I have a 99 XJ. I've tapped into the lines before to change the transmission fluid.
What I did is not a complete flush but it sure is a lot better than dropping the pan and draining and refilling with 2 quarts..

When you tap into the transmission line... In one line the pump is forcing the fluid out... The other line WILL NOT suck new fluid back in. Only the oil pick up that sucks oil through the filter down at the oil pan will suck new fluid in.

Here's what I did.

Disconnect both lines..(and route them to a bucket(unless you know which line the fluid is getting forced out through, in that case just route that line to the bucket.)

Turn on the engine and watch as the oil is being pumped out into the bucket. When the flow decreases to a low flow/trickle. Turn off the engine. Add 4 quarts of new fluid(Dextron III) through the dipstick tube...

Repeat the process. You'll see that the fluid coming out and into the bucket will be running much cleaner after a little bit. Once it decreases to a trickle, turn off the engine(now is a good time to remove the pan and replace the oil filter if you would like to) re-connect the lines, put 4 more quarts in the transmission, and you're done.

Since the car will be in park and there is really no load in the transmission, I doubt there should be any damage to any bushings since they would still have a light coat of oil on them even when the flow coming out of the transmission is low.

I did this on my XJ at about 70,000miles... Now at 118,000miles without a problem. I'm probably going to repeat the process soon but this time I'll drop the pan and replace the filter.

MAP
 
Thanks for the reply, MAP; but where did you get the info on that process? From what you're saying, you're putting in a total of 12 qts. & losing about 3 when the filter is changed out.
It should work out quantity-wise if, when you stop the engine, 4 qts. was eliminated each time when flow is reduced to a "trickle". Am a bit unsure of how to end up with the fluid at the right level unless the pumped out fluid was measured...
At least you've given me a technique to look at. Anyone else out there have any other opinions?
regards,
jlex.
 
When the flow goes down to a trickle, it's because the oil pan has been emptied... there's no additional 3 quarts to lose there. And I ended up putting a total of 8 quarts into the transmission not 12. 4 quarts of old fluid get emptied, 4 new quarts get added, 4 more get emptied, 4 more get added... a total of only 8 get added. Considering we have the same transmission, this should work for you. If you like put only 3 quarts in at the last "add" step and check the level.

You ask where I learned about this method... I didn't. I knew how the transmission pumped the fluid so I did it. I didn't read about it anywhere. My XJ has an oil cooler so it was easy to tap into those lines.

MAP
 
jlex said:
Thayer: I was expecting to use a lot more fluid... that's the reason for going thru all this trouble. It sounds like you've gone thru it before... just how exactly are you pumping out all the old & replacing it with fresh fluid? Is the return line picking up the new fluid by itself, or are you feeding it back into the system some way?

Jlex.
I pretty much did it like how Map described, except I didn't let it run down to a trickle. I didn't know if that was going to hurt the tranny. I went to HomeDepot and bought a paint bucket for $1. It has lines marking off 1qt and 2qt. I started the engine and let the line fill up the bucket until it was at the 2qt line, then shut off the engine and poured 2 fresh qts into the dip stick tube. Empty the bucket out into the 2 empty bottles you just used (bring these to get recycled) then repeat the whole process again. I had to do that 5 times until the fluid looked fresh.
 
So I'm bored and decided to do some math....

I heard of people draining the pan, refilling it, driving for a few days, draining the pan, refilling it, driving for a few days....etc....repeating this cycle until they go through a whole case. I guess they don't want to tap into the lines and don't want to pay for a tranny flush, but want to get all the fluid replaced.

The problerm is that you get less and less of the old fluid out of the tranny everytime you repeat the process. I think the FSM says an empty tranny takes 8.45 qts and assumimg each pan drain gets 4 qts out, here goes the math:

First change gets 47% of the old fluid out (4/8.45).
Second change gets you out 69% of the old fluid (0.473+0.473^2).
Third time is 80% (0.473+0.473^2+0.473^3).
Forth time is 85%.
Fifth is 87%.
Sixth is 88%.
Pointless to do anymore change at this point.

So going through a case (12 qts = 3 changes) gets out 80% of the fluid, which is probably fine. I was just thinking about this and wondering about the math.
 
Sorry I missed this thread!!

Yes, as quoted above, I do mine by routing the hose to a bucket. Route both hoses if you don't know which is the pressure one. As was said before, the return line isn't suction, so it won't suck from a bucket.

First, a minor point. If making your cuts for the first time, try to tap the return line to the trans from the radiator. That way, the cooler and more lines get flushed as well. Otherwise, most of the lines and the cooler have old stuff in them when done, although you could blow it out with air into the pan as part of the process, but doing it this way is easier.

As you run it in P or N, it will start out at a full flow. Observe fluid color, preferably with some light behind the stream so you can judge transparency and color. Have someone start the car while you do the work with the lines. After a minute or so, the flow drops down a bit, but it's still a flow. After another short while (30 secs maybe) it will rapidly slow down, then start to spit air. I give a hand signal to the one in the car to kill it.

I usually kill it just before it spits air, but have done it after too with no ill effects. At this point, everything in the trans is still wet and lubed, but it is essentially as empty as can be. I then refill through the filler tube. I judge how much came out, then add it plus a little. I think at this point in most transmissions, all that remains is in the converter, and check valves keep it from coming back. The flow is: pan to servos and valves in the body to converter to cooler to pan. So, when you add through the filler, the old is separate from the new.

Anyway, have it started again and do it again. Near the end of this time, the fluid will suddenly look new as it comes out. I usually measure the first time on a car, both because it has the dirtiest fluid it'll have at that point and it's easiest to see the diff. It's always worked out to the rated capacity with converter - a full change. I'll let a couple more qts through for grins.

Now, when it stops, you just have the body to fill as the converter has new in it by now. Since everything is bathed in fluid in there, at no point does it ever truly 'run dry' in a damaging way. If you were to drop the pan, everything would be dripping wet.

It only gets tough if you change it when it still looks good (like you're supposed to ;) . But, with a good eye, you can always tell used from new as it comes out...

-Skip
 
Thanks for all the replies, guys. That's the last maintenance item I'll need to do before the snow flies & decided to do it right this time. Great forum... & thanks again to all.
regards,
jlex.
 
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