HP Ford Hysteer

Okay I am in the final stages of my HP44 9" swap I my question are revolving around my steering set-up. I want to run chevy 1 ton TRE and 1.5" DOM which I already have both, as well the RE bracket kit installed by a local shop (CRSU) to bolt in indentically to a D30. I cannot set the TR on top of the factory ford knuckles because the taper is from the bottom. I have a free 89 ram charger that has a D44 front end with flat top knuckles on both sides, the drivers side already has the studs for the factory steering arm, and the bolt pattern matches the the 9" at 5x5.5 So does any one see any problems in swaping the dodge stuff onto my ford housing from the knuckles out, prividing that I have the pass. side knuckle tapped for hysteer arm? And what kinds of set-ups are you all running on your XJ's, I am concerned if this dodge conversion works for me that I will need to be careful in selecting hysteer arms to find a set that wont interfer with the coils. thanks in advance for any help, -steve.

I just got done doing something similar on my HP44 swap. Only I used 76 1/2 ton chevy flat top knuckles, spindles, stub shaft, caliper and caliper bracket with the original 79 ford hub that came with my HP44. I think there are ways of doing the same with certain dodge parts.

Go to http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/flatop_knucles.html for a crap load of info on D44 flattops

Bryan

if you run the dodge outers, you have to run EVERYTHING dodge out - meaning that you run the knuckle, caliper, caliper bracket, spindle, FULL TIME BLOCK OFF PLATE, and 35 spline stub shaft...

the full time hub is the only problem that i didnt like - though the added 35? spline stub shaft is a nice bonus...

you could also buy a tapered reamer for the bigger holes...

the hole is 3/4" at is base - i just drilled mine out for a 3/4" bolt so i could use 3/4" heims...

are those 35 spline stubs 1.5" like most 35 spline stuff? got a link to more info?

BrettM said:

are those 35 spline stubs 1.5" like most 35 spline stuff? got a link to more info?

Click to expand...

here on Mr. N's webpage about 1/5 of the way down on the left, below this picture:

http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/flatop_knucles.html said:

Dodge early 70's. This is from a 74 Dodge fulltime 4x4, notice the 35 spline stub shaft. Your stuck running the Dodge knuckles-out parts with this knuckle, nothing will interchange. 74.5-80

Dodge early 70's This is a 74 Dodge passenger flat top knuckle, notice the unique Dodge setup. This runs the big unit bearings. I don't know Dodge so don't expect to see too much data on how to use any Dodge parts.

Click to expand...

hmm looks like our friend here might be SOL for the 35 spliner's but might be still stuck with the unit hubs and no maunal lockouts if he runs the dodge outters.


on This page:
http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/flatop_knucles.html
(about 1/2 the way down on how to run 5 on 5.5 bolt pattern)


Mr. N talks about the years of the manual hubs and the lock off plates
- maybe a hybrid could be made with 5 on 5.5, serviceable bearings, manual hubs, 35 splines, and discs?



I saw quite a few of these knuckles (with full time hubs and discs) at Sacramento / Rancho Cordova Pick and Pull


might be worth 40.00 to figure out 35 spline d44 outters!

okay i think I am now even more confused about the dodge set-up than before. According to Mr. N's page in the link listed above the little bit of information he gives about the dodge stuff says its full time 4x4 hubs, but if you read over at billavista steering research page on POR he list 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton pickup and ramchargers 80-93 as warn premium locking hub applications that work part# 20990. So is this telling me I can swap the dodge stuff and run the warn manual lock outs? Will I hafta run the dodge 35 spline outer shaft? -steve

I am running Chevy 1 ton TRE's with 1.5" DOM tie rod and 1.25" draglink. I'm using the original Ford knuckles that I reamed out from the top and it works great. I used Snap-On part# R-121 tapered reamer to ream out the knuckles and it worked like a champ. I think the reamer was around $40. There were a couple of vendors over on PBB selling steering kits from whom I got my TRE's and DOM tubing.

I didn't think I needed hi-steer, and I wanted my 44 front to be as close to the stock configuration as possible for swaps ( I have a 2000 XJ waiting in the wings) or future sale.

I had already bought a new set of warn premium lock outs at advance auto parts fr my 78 F-150 axle, I called today and asked about getting some for the ram charger to convert it away from full time 4wd and the part numbers for the lockouts were the same. I guess all i need to figure out now is if I need to use the ram charger stub shaft for some reason or if I can reuse my ford ones. -steve

Nemo- what pitman arm are you using with the chevy TRE's? And using the reamer from the top was there enough material around the ear to sit the TRE up til the taper on the stud? I looked at doing this but I didn't think I could ream the ford knuckle out to safely accept the one ton TRE.

HoodRichXJ said:

Nemo- what pitman arm are you using with the chevy TRE's? And using the reamer from the top was there enough material around the ear to sit the TRE up til the taper on the stud? I looked at doing this but I didn't think I could ream the ford knuckle out to safely accept the one ton TRE.

Click to expand...

The pitman arm is from Full-Traction's kit, and I had to ream that out also. There was enough material to ream out the knuckles for the bigger TRE's. I was concerned about that also, but it isn't an issue.

thanks captain, one last question for ya if I may. What are you running for brakes, and then what size wheels to clear those brakes? thanks for all the help guys. -steve

HoodRichXJ said:

thanks captain, one last question for ya if I may. What are you running for brakes, and then what size wheels to clear those brakes? thanks for all the help guys. -steve

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Just the stock F-150 brakes. 15x8 wheels with 3 3/4 inch backspacing (Eagle 589's).

HoodRichXJ said:

I had already bought a new set of warn premium lock outs at advance auto parts fr my 78 F-150 axle, I called today and asked about getting some for the ram charger to convert it away from full time 4wd and the part numbers for the lockouts were the same. I guess all i need to figure out now is if I need to use the ram charger stub shaft for some reason or if I can reuse my ford ones. -steve

Click to expand...

that shouldnt work - the ford outters are 19 spline and if the dodge outters are 35 spline - it wont work...
however, i think Mr.N was talking about the early (1970's) dodge outters being 35 spline.
I might be going to pick and pull today and will take pictures of dodge stuff if i do...

i remember there being a unit hub though, which isnt always bad, just not my prefrence...

ill also count splines and measure shaft lengths...

Nemo- did you hafta do any grinding to your ford calipers to get the to fit the 15" wheel?

HoodRichXJ said:

Nemo- did you hafta do any grinding to your ford calipers to get the to fit the 15" wheel?

Click to expand...

i will be running the stock ford outters and have test fit my rims (with 3" BS 15x8 5 on 5.5) and it will fit on mine

steering linkage might be an issue, and i havent checked that yet...

HoodRichXJ said:

Nemo- did you hafta do any grinding to your ford calipers to get the to fit the 15" wheel?

Click to expand...

No. The 1/2 ton outters will accomodate the 15" rims. The 3/4 ton outters (8 lug) would require grinding on the calipers for 15" rims.

I just browsed through this but:

The only Dodge 35 spline stubs are on the uni-bearing style knuckle. Mid 70's with the 5x4.5" bolt pattern (yes same as the Cherokee) and the '94 and newer. The late 70's or maybe 80 through 93 are a standard 44 style knuckle, hub and shaft. They also accept the standard warn hubs in place of the drive flange.

Personally I woudln't waste the time with just flipping the tie rod on top of the knuckle. I did the same thing with mine and I've been kicking myself for not switching to a high steer setup long ago (just did get it changed). I thought the handling was ok before, but after changing I realized how much it really sucked.

I'm not sure how much the full traction pitman drops, but Captains axle end of the track bar is a good 2 1/2" lower than I had mine when running the Ford knuckles. It also looks likey they drop the track bar at the frame in to match the pitman. Keep that in mind if your trying to match that setup.

If I were you I would get the dodge stuff and do the swap know. The only additional cost is going to be the price of the arms and moving the track bar mount on the axle.

ttttt

this is now




this is when i first put the axle in it





the before set up is kinda just like Nemo's only i was using Ford tierod and ends.i should have gone with chevy ends and dom but i also knew it was getting replace
every thing is mounted under the highsteer arm between the stock ear.i just never got around to cutting them off good thing because i'm using them now