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D44 swap woes

outlawjeep

outlawjeep

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Bossier City, LA
OK after an exahusting search of the archives I still have a question. I did the swap and ever since I have had a noise and vibe coming from the rear. I have had the axle shaft bearing replaced, and had a Jeep mechanic, buddy of mine from the Jeep club, look at the gears and they can not find the problem.

Here are the syspmtoms:
Upon deceleration I have a vibe in the rear end. I have checked all things related -u-joints were just replaced, new axle shaft bearings, and brakes look good. This is a 97 XJ that I swapped it into and I weas wondering if my angles are wrong rear yoke sits about 1* lower than slip yoke u-joint.

This is an 87' 44 and I am concerened that it may need to be rebuilt. It does have the factory LSD and the clutch discs are worn. Sorry do not know much about LSD so I am unfamiliar with the setup. could that cause the problem? Is there a rebuild kit for them? Or should I just rebuild the entire diff and see if that fixes the problem? It does have a T-case drop but when that is taken out I have real bad acceleration vibes. So I put it back in. I have pulled the front shaft and that is not causing the problem. So now I am at a loss. I do not know what to do from here. For all I know it could be the pinion bearing going bad. Please help.


Ray
 
Did you replace the rear drive shaft with the one from the donor vehicle or have your original one shortened? The pinion on the 44 is longer than both the 8.25 and D35 so it will slightly steepen your driveline angles. Usually not enough to make a difference however. How much lift do you have? Are you using degree shims to change the pinion angle? Is the driveshaft balanced? Did you knock any balancing weights off during the install?

If the Traclok's clutches are worn, it wouldn't cause a vibration, it just wouldn't limit the slip anymore.
 
TrailHunter said:
Did you replace the rear drive shaft with the one from the donor vehicle or have your original one shortened? The pinion on the 44 is longer than both the 8.25 and D35 so it will slightly steepen your driveline angles.QUOTE]
i believe you are wrong there, my driveshaft moved out when installed my 44
Click to expand...
 
I have held the drive shafts from XJs with all three axles together on a bench. I don't remember the exact measurements anymore, but the 44 was the shortest, then the 8.25 and the D35s shaft was the longest. There may be some other factors that I'm not aware of. These all came out of autos too.
 
TrailHunter said:
Did you replace the rear drive shaft with the one from the donor vehicle or have your original one shortened?
Click to expand...
No. I was only able to get the axle. So I am still using my original one. Should it matter?

TrailHunter said:
The pinion on the 44 is longer than both the 8.25 and D35 so it will slightly steepen your driveline angles. Usually not enough to make a difference however. How much lift do you have?
Click to expand...
Running an RE 6030 w/ Revolvers in the rear. I thought that the pinion on the 44 and the 8.25 were pretty close. I measered them and if memory sevrves me they are within a half an inch or less.


TrailHunter said:
Are you using degree shims to change the pinion angle?
Click to expand...
No shims... Yet. I am still trying to figure this out. What should the pinion angle be at? Where should I take the upper measurement from?

TrailHunter said:
Is the driveshaft balanced? Did you knock any balancing weights off during the install?
Click to expand...
Yes, the shaft is balanced. I noticed the problem after I installed the 44 but never had it with the 8.25. Thought I had it after I replaced the axle bearings but it came back.

This is getting really frustrating. I took a trip to the beach the other day and driving down there was fine. No vibes during load but as soon as I took my foot off the gas I could hear them. Coming back was a different story. I could feel them slightly under acceleration and they were still there under deceleration. You can actually hear it at 15 mph pretty good. Definetly coming from the back. Problem it what is it? I am starting to think that it may be a pinion bearing going out but am not sure.

Now I do not have an SYE but am thinking that may be soemthing else I need to do also. I just don't have the money for that right now.

So any more ideas??


Ray
 
Last edited:
you need to shim the front of teh axle up. the angle is too shallow, the stock d35 DS should be fine. It is longer than the d44 DS so it helps to lessen the angle. The pinion and the DS should be in a straight line.
 
xjnation said:
you need to shim the front of the axle up. the angle is too shallow, the stock d35 DS should be fine. It is longer than the d44 DS so it helps to lessen the angle. The pinion and the DS should be in a straight line.
Click to expand...
It was actually a 8.25. So if I need to shim it what degree should I use and where can I get them from. I do not trust most of the 4x4 shops in the area so I do most of my shopping on line or thru a catalog. TIA



Ray
 
xjnation said:
you need to shim the front of teh axle up. the angle is too shallow, the stock d35 DS should be fine. It is longer than the d44 DS so it helps to lessen the angle. The pinion and the DS should be in a straight line.
Click to expand...

SPOBI. The pinion and the driveshaft should only be inline if the upper U-joint was replaced with a double-cardan joint. Since he has not yet installed a SYE w/ DC shaft, the pinion and T-case output should be approximately parallel. You also need to ensure that there is enough spline engagement on the T-case output since the '97 model has the unsupported slip yoke. Sounds to me like you need to measure your driveline angles and correct them, and save up for a SYE.
 
xjnation said:
you need to shim the front of teh axle up. the angle is too shallow, the stock d35 DS should be fine. It is longer than the d44 DS so it helps to lessen the angle. The pinion and the DS should be in a straight line.
Click to expand...

That is not totally correct. Unless you have a CV driveshaft, the pinion and output shaft on your TC should be parallel. If you've got too much lift and you're yokes are binding then you need to upgrade to a doube-cardan shaft and do what xjnation said and get shims to point the pinion up making the shaft and pinion a straight line.

I'd be willing to bet the problem is your driveline angles. So with your 3.5" springs and revolver shackles are you sitting at about 5" of lift in the back. Someone earlier said that using your longer shaft with the 44 which has a longer pinion will better your angles. It will not. The shaft slide further back into the slipyoke and the angle will be steeper because the pinion moves closer to the TC. I don't think the shaft lenth is the problem unless there isn't enough room for it to compress fully, I think it's the angle.

You said you're using a TC drop which tips it down, so you might need a small shim to raise the pinion so they remain parallel. You could solve all of it by going double-cardan.
 
Well I have measeured the angles but am unsure if I am taking them from the prpoer place. I measured right on the rear pinionfrom all 4 sides then measured from the Slip Yoke again at all four sides and compared. There is only a 1* difference between the two and I was unsure if this is the correct dergee or not. I thought it was supposed to be at least 2*to 3* for it to be correct. Is this true? Also I am currently saving for the SYE and should have enough for it in September but I need to fix this before then. This is my DD so I really can not wait.


Ray

PS. What does "SPOBI" mean?
 
outlawjeep said:
What does "SPOBI" mean?
Click to expand...

Stop Putting Out Bad Information. In other words, I was telling XJNation he was wrong. TrailHunter's analysis sounds correct since it is along the same lines as my own.
 
Lawn Cher' said:
Stop Putting Out Bad Information. In other words, I was telling XJNation he was wrong. TrailHunter's analysis sounds correct since it is along the same lines as my own.
Click to expand...

yep my bad...was not thinking cleatrly today...to many hours on heavy equiptment this week

did it vibe before the aditional 2" of lift?
 
TrailHunter said:
I'd be willing to bet the problem is your driveline angles. So with your 3.5" springs and revolver shackles are you sitting at about 5" of lift in the back. Someone earlier said that using your longer shaft with the 44 which has a longer pinion will better your angles. It will not. The shaft slide further back into the slipyoke and the angle will be steeper because the pinion moves closer to the TC. I don't think the shaft lenth is the problem unless there isn't enough room for it to compress fully, I think it's the angle.

You said you're using a TC drop which tips it down, so you might need a small shim to raise the pinion so they remain parallel. You could solve all of it by going double-cardan.
Click to expand...

Actually I only got about 4 to 4.5" of lift. Not sure exactly I have not measured in awhile. Plus I carry a lot of heavy tools in the back so that sits it down some. What do you mean about compress fully? The shaft sits aboutthe same as it did stock. Yeah it was a little further out with the 8.25 but not much. If I need to shim how much and where do I get them from?


Ray
 
outlawjeep said:
What do you mean about compress fully? The shaft sits aboutthe same as it did stock. Yeah it was a little further out with the 8.25 but not much. If I need to shim how much and where do I get them from?


Ray
Click to expand...

You need to measure how much to shim, it is different with each setup. Tom Woods has an excellent diagram but I don't have the link handy. The shims can be ordered from RE, among other suppliers.
 
outlawjeep said:
This is getting really frustrating. I took a trip to the beach the other day and driving down there was fine. No vibes during load but as soon as I took my foot off the gas I could hear them. Coming back was a different story. I could feel them slightly under acceleration and they were still there under deceleration. You can actually hear it at 15 mph pretty good. Definetly coming from the back. Problem it what is it? I am starting to think that it may be a pinion bearing going out but am not sure.
Click to expand...
So as you drive at constant speed there is no vibes, but when you accelerate and or decelerate vibes show up?
1. Check your ubolts and make sure they're not loose.
2. It's possible that your spring pack is just a little bit tired and it's wrapping one way during accelaration and another way during deceleration.
3. If it's something that yo ucan reproduce at 15mph going straight, pull the rear driveshaft and go to 4H. If it's related to the angle of the rear driveshaft then you should see it go away when the rear driveshaft is removed.
 
Kejtar said:
So as you drive at constant speed there is no vibes, but when you accelerate and or decelerate vibes show up?
1. Check your ubolts and make sure they're not loose.
2. It's possible that your spring pack is just a little bit tired and it's wrapping one way during accelaration and another way during deceleration.
3. If it's something that yo ucan reproduce at 15mph going straight, pull the rear driveshaft and go to 4H. If it's related to the angle of the rear driveshaft then you should see it go away when the rear driveshaft is removed.
Click to expand...
I have checked all of that. Now it seems to be gettting worse. There is a grinding noise coming from the rear. With out the DS I have a noise back there but it is hard to describe, but the "grinding" is not there that I can hear. When the DS is put back it and you get up to 15 then you can hear it. As you accelerate it get louder. When you slow down it is still there. I am really starting to lean toward the pinion bearing being worn out. My wife's ZJ did this right after I got back from the desert. Sounds about the same to me. What do you guys think?



Ray
 
outlawjeep said:
I have checked all of that. Now it seems to be gettting worse. There is a grinding noise coming from the rear. With out the DS I have a noise back there but it is hard to describe, but the "grinding" is not there that I can hear. When the DS is put back it and you get up to 15 then you can hear it. As you accelerate it get louder. When you slow down it is still there. I am really starting to lean toward the pinion bearing being worn out. My wife's ZJ did this right after I got back from the desert. Sounds about the same to me. What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

Was there any side to side play in the pinion? Raise the rear end up on jackstands, take the driveshaft off and spin it by hand: can you feel any grinding? Can you feel any play? any resistance?
 
is he really talking about DS vibes or is he confusing it with the vibes you get from the differential? You can get vibes from DEceleration that are different from the ones caused from ACceleration. Has to do with the tightness (loading) of the bearings on the pinion. I have the problem of vibes under deceleration in my 9" rear. I'm NOT an expert on diffs but have had it explained at one time.
It does sound like his pinion/tcase angles are out of whack so that when the Jeep decelerates the rear diff will dive causing the angle to be off. Same thing under acceleration but from the opposite misalignment.
your advice to check the DS angles first sounds correct. If not that then check out the pinion in the diff.
 
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