brake tightening myth!?

I noticedd a lot that my back brakes are loose. I heard that by rolling backwards in reverse with my foot on the brake just a bit, will tightenmy back brakes. Just wondering if it is tru or not!?

i dont know about that but i know if you back up a hill in reverse and then push on your brakes real quick and hard it will adjust the adjusters therefore tightening your brakes, or i believe you could tighten the adjusters manually if im not mistaken.

lol that's what i thought... But i'd thought i'd ask before i wasted a lot time, trying it out... lol

I've heard this so many times, including from dealer techs I worked with. I have never had any luck in doing this. They will not adjust themselves as tight as you normally set them during adjustment. New, old, rusty or dirty, doesn't seem to matter. I always just manually adjusted them a couple clicks any time I thought of it. When I go out and wheel it for the weekend, It always needs to be adjusted. Get in the habit of doing it if you want to really have them grab.

If the adjusters and the brake hardware are in good shape and installed correctly, they will expand when you back and stop as described.

yah because they won't lock up no matter what, even in mud, and eveything is new inside the drum, i just did all the work about 4 months ago, and when i stop on pavement, u can feel the 4.0L still pushing the back, whcih means no brakeing, because it is still at the perfect idle speed. So i guess i should just go and adjust them eh

Something that's often overlooked is lubing the starwheel adjuster. I use a dab of caliper slide lube, where the starwheel fits into the shoe retainer. If the starwheel dosen't turn freely, the self-adjusters won't work.....

devile said:

yah because they won't lock up no matter what, even in mud, and eveything is new inside the drum, i just did all the work about 4 months ago, and when i stop on pavement, u can feel the 4.0L still pushing the back, whcih means no brakeing, because it is still at the perfect idle speed. So i guess i should just go and adjust them eh

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I've only been able to lock mine up once,and had to brake really fast and extremely hard to do that. Have heard various people say how hard it is to lock up the brakes. Not sure if it's because of the adjustment or not but doesn't seem like it. When my brakes were adjusted how I wanted them, until the dealership fawquered them, I still couldn't lock them up.

Correct me if I am wrong someone but the only thing that adjusts the back shoes automaticaly is frequent use of the parking brakes. It has cabeling and adjusters that does that or is at least designed to do that if everything is in place and porperly lubed. I never have problems with the adjustment on the rear. But then again I use my parking brakes 99% of the time.

devile said:

yah because they won't lock up no matter what, even in mud, and eveything is new inside the drum, i just did all the work about 4 months ago, and when i stop on pavement, u can feel the 4.0L still pushing the back, whcih means no brakeing, because it is still at the perfect idle speed. So i guess i should just go and adjust them eh

Click to expand...

If done properly, drum brake adjustment never hurts and can only help. But, I had similar problem after a complete overhaul and the rears worked much better after removing and cleaning the proportioning valve located in the brake line manifold under the master cylinder. There's also a mod I've read about modifying it for more rear brake action but you'll have to search/ask. 'Sorry

The reverse trick works for adjustment, but you have to get going to like 15-20 and hit them really hard. At least on mine that is. My neighbors always look at me like I'm crazy when i do it.

Going in reverse and stomping on your brakes to tighten them is dumb luck. The parking brake is the only mechanical link to the adjuster screw on the bottom half of the brake shoes. The hydrolic piston at the top pushes out on the shoes to apply pressure to the drums for normal braking. The adjuster screw at the bottom is attatched to the E-brake cable. When you pull the E-brake in the vehicle, the cable pulls on a little arm that spins the adjuster screw to make it spread the lower half of the shoes apart to engage the drums for a parking brake. There is no way anyone can convince me that driving in reverse and hitting the brakes will adjust them. No wonder people look at you funny when you do that. :wierd:

I do all my own brake work and keep everything in top shape. I have never had to manually adjust drum brakes on any of the vehicles that I've owned. They do adjust automatically when you apply the brakes abruptly while going in reverse at about 5 mph or so. As long as the adjuster wheel and associated mechanisms are in good working order, it will work. Take a good look at the brake assembly (with the drum removed, of course) and think about which way the shoes will go if you applied the brakes while going in reverse and how that affects the adjuster wheel mechanism.

By the way, the adjuster/star wheels are directional. You can't swap between left and right side.

Is it a Dana 35? They are kind of a problem axle when it comes to keeping the brakes adjusted. It's a good idea to pull them apart once or twice a year and lube up the star wheel. I like to use a little thinner greese. Something that will stay there for awhile.

T.Hopp said:

Going in reverse and stomping on your brakes to tighten them is dumb luck. The parking brake is the only mechanical link to the adjuster screw on the bottom half of the brake shoes. The hydrolic piston at the top pushes out on the shoes to apply pressure to the drums for normal braking. The adjuster screw at the bottom is attatched to the E-brake cable. When you pull the E-brake in the vehicle, the cable pulls on a little arm that spins the adjuster screw to make it spread the lower half of the shoes apart to engage the drums for a parking brake. There is no way anyone can convince me that driving in reverse and hitting the brakes will adjust them. No wonder people look at you funny when you do that. :wierd:

Click to expand...

May be true in some brake systems, but the type that is found on the jeep rear drums has a seperate little cable that is attached to the adjustment lever, and is activated by braking in reverse. There is no connection between the e brake cable and the adjuster on the Cherokee brakes

Re: brake tightening myth!? reply long...

I have never been successfull adjusting the rear brakes via the "back-up" method. I do my own brakes, always emery down the all the contact points where the shoes contact the backing plate, and personally use anti-seize compound as lube, as opposed to lithium grease. Also wire brush anything that touches anything else.

Ugh, to get back on topic, when I disassemble the adjuster, I clean the heck out of it with carb/brake cleaner, acetone, whatever makes it look pretty. Half fill the female part with the cleaner, hold the end with your thumb, shake the heck out of it. Then use a real small wire brush to clean the threads, finish the job. Wire wheel the male part, etc... Then, I've found an equal mixture of anti-seize compound and Mobil 1 grease, to me, is the best lube for the threads. I'm sure other lubes will work, but that's just me.

Reassemble, then with the front wheels chocked FIRMLY, and the tranny in N, use the star adjuster to tighten the shoes, rotating the wheels forward. Don't be afraid to go fairly tight, there's no way you can apply the same torque as the drivetrain. I've rarely had to use a piece of coathanger to help back off the star because of overtightening. The other side will feel tight, but do the same thing. You'll develop a feel, trust me.

After you're all done, check the pull of the e-brake lever, and adjust accordingly. Again, I spray the daylights out of the threads w/brake cleaner, backing off the 1/2 inch nut to expose all threads. Using the lube mixture mentioned before, I apply alot, adjust the break, and wipe off the excess. I've found this mixture has never failed me, adjuster never freezes. There's this VERY expensive lube spray called Boeshield, Boeing makes it for their planes, available at West Marine. I hit the e-brake adjuster every once in awhile for insurance, the stuff has lots of uses.

One more thing, since I bought my '98 new, every spring I open the bleeders in a certain order and let the old brake fluid drip out, making sure I add new Castrol (a quart is more than enough) to the master before air enters the system. I've never had to bleed the brake system, and still have a rock hard pedal, albeit w/stainless lines.

Have ALOT of rags (or extra napkins you might have grabbed from dunkin' donuts) :laugh3: to suck up the old fluid. A real pita on your knees job, but after 101k miles, my calipers and slaves are in great shape.

I know a real bleeding is far superior, but I have no friends, therefore no one to pump the pedal... :looser:

hth...

brake adjustment parts

On mine (Dana 35) the flat arm that locks the star wheel does not contact the star wheel. There is no way that the brakes can hold adjustment. The arm (the same one you push aside to release the star wheel, if it actually makes contact) needs to be either taller of bent back inward more to reach the star wheel. Mine is currently bent on one side, testing it out. I'm tired of manually adjusting then having it not last any time at all. I'm saying it is a desgn fault, the parts don't work together (doesn't matter whether it was OEM, good quality Raybestos replacement hardware, or the current discount/cheapy hardware kit- all the same results).

I just adjusted my rear brakes. I did so just to see how much help I could get from the drums.

O.K. so I raise the rear of the XJ, throw the auto into neutral, pull the plug off the backing plate on the drivers side. I used a screw driver to adjust.

Now I have read to spin the wheel while adjusting until I 'feel' drag and stop, heres where it gets interesting. I have a Detroit in the rear of my 8.25 so while spinning the wheel I spin the entire rearend. With the passenger side wheel spinning it was hard to 'feel' anything so, I just 'rocked' the drivers side wheel forward and backward throughout the 'play' zone the Detroit has.

I clicked that adjuster probably 12-15 times before I felt any drag so I stopped. I remember reading that Detroits become 'interesting' when tire pressure is off so I began to wonder if I don't adjust each side the same I could get handling problems. So I stand there and spin the drivers side wheel forward continuously, the locker allowed the drivers side wheel to free-wheel while the driveshaft and pass. side wheel didn't spin. I don't understand that. If there was 'more' drag on the drivers side wheel why would it free-wheel?

Anyway, I tried to get the passenger side adjusted the same. I adjusted the passenger side until the locker locked while spinning the passenger side. Got that done, now for the test drive.

Holy crap this thing stops way better now. I can haul this thing down to a stop quick now. I can hear the rear MT/R's grabbing the asphalt hard. I couldn't get the rears to lock, I probably didn't try hard enough.

So, with the upgraded front brakes and the adjusted rears I feel confident now.

After the test drive I returned home. Unsure if I 'over' adjusted the brakes I touched the drums; they were hot as all get out!

I am worried that I have 'over' adjusted the brakes; it seems that under hard acceleration there is too much drag. But, while coasting it doesn't slow on its own any more than it used to.

I can see the rear locking instantly the next time it rains. Any thoughts?

The only time I overtightened the drums and knew it was when at an idle on level ground, with my foot off the brake pedal, my xj barely crept forward, versus the normal foot off the pedal and there you go scenario.

IMHO if this does not occur you're ok. Remember, you're just converting mechanical energy into global warming :wierd: . That's one of the six useful things I remember from six years of college.:speepin: