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C02 Vs. Nitrogen gas

d10shun

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Az
I bought a 10lb CO2 and a 250psi regulator for a portable air setup. I took my tank to Phoenix Welding supply and the guy there said that nitrogen is a much better gas for my needs and that CO2 is not as stable. How stable does it need to be...we breathe is out every second! He said that CO2 could oxidize my rims and tires and that the CO2 is too "wet" to use for air tools. I was under the impression that CO2 was a liquid only in extreme cold.

He recommened that I start over - buy a nitrogren tank, nitrogen regulator and nitrogen gas. Do I ignore what they say and fill up with CO2?
 
I would be willing to bet that he would be the one to sell you the new, smooth, and costly Nitrogen setup.
There are lots of companies out there that sell CO2 tanks for offroad use, tool use, etc.
How many Nitrogen tank setups do you see on the trail?
Cliffs notes: run what ya gots.
 
I've been running co2 for about a year now, in my tires and air tools. Haven't had my tires apart to check the inside parts of the rims, but I doubt that there's a problem. The co2 comes in either an aluminum or steel tank, that's what rims are made of as well. I second the fact that there are so many companies selling them, that the systems must work.

Daryl
 
He wasn't talking about chemical stability (both gasses are equal in chemical stability at shirtsleeve temperatures) but physical stability. Ask any paintballer, and he'll tell you there's a significant difference.

The behaviour of nitrogen gas is more predictable than that of CO2, but with the uses we are putting it to, there is little to no difference. Since we are just inflating tyres and occasionally running light air tools, we can assume that CO2 will behave the way we want it to. If I were going to do more - or run rather more air tools - I'd probably go with a full nitrogen setup, but another advantage of CO2 is it can be had from welding supply, paintball pro shop, or any carbonics/soft drink supply house - which makes it a good deal more available (not all paintball houses have nitrogen tanks.)

The problem with CO2 is that it is considered "cryogenic" - in this case, simply because it is stored under enough pressure to make it a liquid at room temperature. Sustained use - especially at large volumes - will cause a loss of pressure and can actually freeze valving, requiring that the system actually thaw out.

This is caused by the fact that CO2 is stored as a liquid at room temperature, and this is what generates your working pressure source (of 1500-1800psi in the tank.) As you use gas, more evapourates from the liquid stage to fill the depleted volume. As this happens, heat is used to "flash" the liquid into a usable gas, and this is why your tank and valves will get cold. Humidity in the air will condense into the valve workings, and it can and will get cold enough to freeze. This isn't much of a problem (unless your valve freezes open,) since you just let it sit idle until it deices.

If you think you are going to use a lot of gas at once, or you will have sustained use of air tools, you are really better off with a nitrogen setup (since air-tool oil can get cold enough for tools to bind as well.) If you are going to use it occasionally, or just use it for tyres, it will work well as long as you remember to keep an eye on tank temperature (if it gets cold, check your tyre pressure again after you have been on the road for a half-hour or so.)

Another nice thing about CO2 is that you can readily check how full your tank is - just dunk it in warm water (or something similar in a pinch) and see where the condensation line settles. This won't cause any real trouble with tank pressure or anything like that, and will not cause any trouble with a pressure bottle in serviceable condition.

Don't forget to have your bottle hydro-tested every five years, if it's capacity is over a pound. As long as it isn't being whacked around, and is protected from large flying objects, it shouldn't wear out.

In case you are wondering - yes, I am a paintballer as well, and I use a LOT of CO2 (makes nice portable shop air as well, and I know target shooters who use CO2 blasts to cool rifle barrels between shot strings...)

5-90
 
Our surgical power tools at work(mini driver, surgitome, sagital saw, etc) all run on nitrogen and so does my paintball gun...

Been trying to figure out a way to fill up my tank at work with no luck

:D

If I could find a decent size nitrogen capable tank for the Heep, I'd fill it up at work too!!!
 
I run Nitro and some things to consider when you run "Nitrogen" or HPA is that the tank pressure is around 3000 to 3500 PSI full. knock the top of one off of one and it's very bad. You also have to Hydro the tank, have it tested every 5 years or if it's an older tank every 2 years. That runs about 35 bucks.

Now the tank set is not much more expensive to buy and it's a little cheaper to fill, so that is a wash.

He is right about CO2 having condinsation and running wet.. as the gas escapes it gets very, very cold and freezes, then that moisture accumulates in the tank.
All you have to do is when you take the tank to be filled turn the tank upsidedown and run all the gas out, this should get rid of the water in the tank.

The only reason I have a Nitro tank is I already had it to fill my Paintball tanks. But I do think about the tank when I am close to putting my jeep on it's side. always in the back of my mind

P1
 
CO2 will give you considerably larger volume for a given tank size. CO2 will not harm your tires or rims. As has been mentioned, it is also safer due to the lower pressure and the fact that to expand, it requires boiling off and that requires heat. It becomes a self limiting reaction.
 
The safety differences between CO2 and Nitro and debatable at best. BOTH can be very dangerous if a tank ruptures, with the new tank and a valve guard, I would not worry.

Rev
 
Found out alot of ricers are running Nitrogen in there tires. I guess it keeps the pressure the same whether the tires are hot or cold. Regular air or CO2 changes quite a bit from cold to hot. This however can't be that big of a problem for big offroad type tires anyway.
Just a point I thought I would bring up.
I know given the choice I would go CO2 just because there are so many companys making products for this aplication.
 
I think
Pressure above liquid CO2 is about 830psi at 56F
All gasses will increase in pressures the same for the same temperature increase in constant volume.
Nitrogen is less dense then CO2 by 28/44.

I have been wrong before.
 
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