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spool or weld

meinert

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Alabama
what do yall recomend that i do in the front disco dana 30....this will be a trail only rig and be trailered every time....

also, i will be changing transfercase's in the jeep at the same time, so can someone point me to a link so i can do a homemade (cable mabye) disconect for the front axle...

thanks
 
spool in the front 30?
make sure youre running alloy shafts with some sort of aftermarket u-joint.. or you will be breaking your shafts left & right.... save up for a lunchbox locker.....
 
can you please tell me why i would rather want a lunchbox compared to a spool or even welded?

i mean...i can see that the weld (maybe) might make it weaker, but the spool wont make it any weaker...

they are gonna both be doing the same job right? both lock both axles, both do the same thing.....i have searched and still dont see how its any different?

please enlighten me...

i can use the homemade disco for whene the trail gets tight and i have to turn around or something......biggest thing i will run will be tellico...and that is probably a good ways away.....
 
A Lockright or similar allows the outside wheel to overrun or freewheel when making turns. The steering is pretty much unaffected in 2wd and even in 4wd it will allow slightly better manueverability. I don't know if you can even get a spool for a 30.
 
Ever ridden in or driven a rig with a spooled front end? I guess not or you wouldn't be asking. I'm now running ARBs front and rear. When on the trail, I leave the rear locked almost all the time whereas the front is locked up only very rarely. There just aren't that many sections where the front locker is necessary (as opposed to just helpful). However, when the frontend is locked (and a locked up ARB is the same as a spool or a welded diff - absolutely no differentiation) it is MUCH more difficult to complete normal trail maneuvers. You can feel the front end fighting to avoid any straying from a straight line - which equals significant added stress on all the front end components. That means not just the gears. carrier, axles, u-joints and hubs, but also the housing and all your steering components as well.
I love my ARBs because of the flexibility - on or off at the flick of a switch. But I would go for an automatic locker (such as a Detroit or a lunchbox locker like the Powertrax) in a heartbeat over either a spool or a welded front end. It just causes you to lose too much flexibility.
An auto locker does not drive both axles at the same speed any time power is applied, contrary to popular belief. Rather, it prevents either axle from turning slower than the ring gear, but will permit either axle to turn faster than the ring gear. What this means is that if a rig is turning under power on a surface with good traction, the inside wheel will be driven at ring gear speed while the outside tire will be driven - by the friction of the ground - at a speed greater than ring gear speed as it traverses the longer line around the outside of the turn. But what does this really mean? It means that any time your rig turns even slightly on any surface, simple geometry requires that either the outside wheel turn faster to cover the greater distance, the inside wheel turn slower to cover the shorter distance, or one or both of those tires must lose traction for the vehicle to turn. No exceptions. An open diff defaults to letting the inside tire turn slower (or to sit still while the other tire spins). An auto locker defaults to allowing the outside tire to turn faster than the ring gear anytime there is enough traction to turn the tire rather than drag one across the surface. A spool or welded diff defaults to forcing one or both tires to lose traction and either be dragged across the surface (outside tire) or made to spin faster than it is moving along the ground (inside tire). Recall that this is for EVERY time you turn the steering wheel, varying proportionately with the extent to which the wheel is turned.
Sorry for the long expanation. To put it simply - unless you only wheel in straight lines or don't mind spending your time and money replacing worn or broken parts - save up for an auto locker for your front axle or save up twice as long for a selectable locker.
Good luck.
 
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sooo....what about welding the rear....how is this any different than welding the front....one tire will still have to "go faster" than the other when turning....i see how this is NOT AS bad as the front....not gonna do this b/c i have the D35c....but just wandering for whene i upgrade to the D60.....

you are saying that even while haveing the front D30 disco'd that i wouldnt be able to turn that well? (example below)

what if i just ran 3wheel drive (with welded spider gears) and then whene needed, engage the other wheel (with the home made cable actuated disco)......... this would not be that bad would it?? ...it would be the same as an open differential up front until i locked the axle (with the homemade cable), then both tires would be getting equal power.....which is basically the same thing as you are doing with the ARB (open diff. until actuated).....doing it this way would allow the drivers tire to spin faster than the passanger side while turning left and then the drivers tire to spin slower whene turning right...i agree that turning right would be alittle diff. than turning left, but not nearly as bad as having a non-disco D30 and welded gears.....

if it wasnt welded in the front though, it would be 3 wheel drive until i pulled the cable, which would still make it 3 wheel drive, just have the option of making the power going to the drivers side wheel right? (open diff.)



i will eventually do it right w/ auto locker in front whene i swap for full width's, so this will be just for the next year approx.
i will eventually swap for the HP44 and D60 that i have, but until the hp30 breaks, im just gonna run the D60 and hp30.....(only b/c of the fab work needed to put the fullwidth hp44 in there at the time)

wanna get this thing on the trail and start wheeling...haha


one more question......is thier anyway that i can just see the threads that i have posted in instead of having to search through them....i know thier is on other sites, but couldnt find it on here...
 
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Even with the front disconnect disengaged, the left axle would still be connected to your welded or spooled case. It would turn right just fine but not so well left. Welding the rear is no different except that its not the axle doing the turning. There will be a lot of feedback and resistance to turning with the spooled frt axle. It is not the same as an ARB because you would always have the left shaft connected to the diff. case. The disconnect affects only the right shaft. If its not welded(open diff), then when the disconnect is disengaged, there will be no power to either side. The ring gear spins, the right shaft is free, and so the diff. sends all motion to that free shaft resulting in no torque to the left side either.
 
hrmm...well since i have the other axles here for spares, i believe that im gonna just go ahead and do this (being on a budget and dont wanna put money into these factory axles).....i do believe you have the steering backwards though....whene turning to the left (with axle disco'd), it would be just like turning left in a axle with a lunchbox....

qoute from you:
An auto locker does not drive both axles at the same speed any time power is applied, contrary to popular belief. Rather, it prevents either axle from turning slower than the ring gear, but will permit either axle to turn faster than the ring gear. What this means is that if a rig is turning under power on a surface with good traction, the inside wheel will be driven at ring gear speed while the outside tire will be driven - by the friction of the ground - at a speed greater than ring gear speed as it traverses the longer line around the outside of the turn.


so...the left turns will be the same (b/c the inner tire will be going the same as the ring gear, and the outside tire will be going faster), but the right turns would be harder b/c the outside tire will be doing the pulling (same speed as ring gear), while the inside tire will be having to go slower than the ring gear (and i dont see a problem w/ that)..i just think this set up would try to pull you straight whene making a harder faster right turn....but i still dont think it would be THAT bad...especially on slick surfaces (mud/dirt)...

like stated b4. im just gonna go ahead and do this for the time being and see how bad it actually is....hell if a break something, i break something...i am not very skinny pedal happy anyways...im always scared to break stuff...haha



just wandering if you have had any actual experience driving a disco'd D30 w/ welded gears?
 
sorry if im sounding like a smart ass..haha..i realize im still a newbie....didnt mean to come off like that, but im just learning about these disconnect axle's and have learned a good bit from this tread..thanks alot..

one more question....is thier any strenth issue about the "sleeve" that disconnects/reconnects the axle?

since im gonna be modding it and making it cable acuated, how/whene should i "lock" the axle....completely stopped/xfer in neutral....xfer in gear? 4wd? etc.....thanks once agian...
 
meinert said:
just wandering if you have had any actual experience driving a disco'd D30 w/ welded gears?
No. I'm much smarter than that.
You seem to grasp the concept that on any given axle, the outside wheel in a utrn will travel farther than the inside wheel. However, you overlook the fact that none of the four wheels will travel the same distance through a turn. It's easy enough to see. Simply drive a curved path through a virgin patch of snow, mud, wet grass, or any surface where you will leave tracks easily seen. Each of the four wheel tracks will be a different length.
Remember that unless you're running a full-time transfercase, you don't get differentiation between the front and rear axles. So if you spool or weld both axles in a rig with a 231 or other non-differentiating t-case, all four wheels will turn at exactly the same speed - even though you'll want them to be able to cover four different distances at the same time, from time to time.
Hey - it's your rig. Weld those pesky coil springs solid too.
:us:
 
welll.....if this is REALLY that bad, can you tell me how it ever came along in the 1st place.....(people welding their diffs).....i will be running a np205 twin sticked...part time xfer case

anyway....my rear will be open for the mean time, so i dont really see the big deal....that will allow all 4 tires to spin differently...hell i have a D35c in backk...i aint gonna weld that haha
 
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welding up a diff came from drag racing. For the 2wd cars to get maximum traxtion in a strait line. welded sucks. my bro 79 malibu has a mini spool in a 9in with 29x18.50x15s and 3in skinnys up front and he cant turn very good. He tried one day to make a sharp turn in the body shop and tore is laderbar in two peices. And dont try to push one around a courner cus it dont happen. tryed it. My dads got a detroit and it hassent failed yet.
just a little fyi
 
i'd weld and truss the d35, carry spare shafts and lube before i welded a disco, 260 jointed, dana 30........but thats just me :lecture:

you in bama so everything gives a little bit. as long as you didn't grab some sudden traction while spinning your tires the either will probably survive for a while.
 
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