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outlawjeep
January 9th, 2005, 19:47
Well I figure that since I have some extra money for Jeep upgrades after X-Mas, that it is about time for me to finally get some aftermarket gauges. Since I got a '97 2dr SE w/ the 4.0 I did not even get a tach in mine (and yes it is a manual). Well a few years ago I got a Auto Meter Sport Comp tach to put in and now I want to add a Volt, Water Temp, and Oil Pressure. So I figure how hard would it be to hook them up.

Now is where I need the help. Do I need the mechanical or the electrical gauges? Can I dicconnect the water temp sensor and use that spot to hook up the mechanical or will that cause faulty reading to the computer and not kick on the electric fan? Also wher is the oil pressure sending unit? Does this unit have an electrical connector that may cause issues with the computer as well if it gets unplugged?

Oh and just so you know I was looking at the Stage 1 Auto Meter Sport Comp Guages if this helps. I was also considering getting the Sun Pro triple guage with all those in there.

Any Help would be great, Picutures even better. I even checked the search and did not find anything. TIA

johnnyc
January 9th, 2005, 19:58
Mechanicals are more accurate. You'll just need t-joints to screw into the original sender holes. Then you can attach both the original sender and new gauge sender into the t-joint.

Believe the oil pressure sender is on or near the oil filter housing.

XJ_ranger
January 9th, 2005, 21:00
well, a cheap way to take care of thoes gages here:
http://www.opiebennett.com/Gauge.htm

maybe its not for you... but it was the logical thing for me to do.

PM DoTheDew24_7 he has a trick mounting location for the aftermarket gauges he put in


might want to look into a vacuum pres guage, and a oil temp gauge...

hope this is helpful...

Gridikal
January 9th, 2005, 21:09
Do I need the mechanical or the electrical gauges?

Did you mean mechanical gauges or digital gauges?
Anyways heres my gauge set up.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-9/828339/P1010015g.JPG
Autometer Digital Cobalt's

RichP
January 9th, 2005, 21:59
You can also find a 97 or 98 XJ or TJ and use those gauges, you remove the idiot light panel and plug in the new gauge panel and it's a done deal, 30 minutes not counting the battery drain down time so insure the airbags don't fire while your playing around in there. Just a safety precaution.
I did my 98SE that way...

JeepFreak21
January 9th, 2005, 22:02
Did you mean mechanical gauges or digital gauges?
Anyways heres my gauge set up.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-9/828339/P1010015g.JPG
Autometer Digital Cobalt's

He means mechanical or electric as far as the way the gauges get the information, not the way the information is displayed.
Billy

Ramsey
January 9th, 2005, 22:04
had a 99 and swapped in 01 gauges and all works well, took all of 20 minutes. i had a tach that i was gonna add but never could figure out how to wire it in. and if i did that, i would just have a tach. for the price of the tach i got all the gagues from the 01

outlawjeep
January 10th, 2005, 13:43
Well thanks for all the help so far guys. Please keep it coming. Now here is a question for you. Is there a way if I get a guage cluster out of a 97+ that I can reset the odometer? Or is that just something I have to live with. Now I never plan on selling my XJ but hey you never know.

Ramsey
January 10th, 2005, 13:46
pretty sure the dealer can reset it for you. i didnt worry about mine, i dont plan on getting rid of it. it was nice to lose 40k miles though :)

RichP
January 10th, 2005, 14:40
The milage is stored in two places, ECU and the gauge cluster, at least thats my understanding. I just made a note or entry in the back of my owners manual on the notes page with the existing milage, new milage on the new cluster and the difference and dated it.

bl|nk
January 10th, 2005, 16:02
Mechanicals are more accurate. You'll just need t-joints to screw into the original sender holes. Then you can attach both the original sender and new gauge sender into the t-joint.

Believe the oil pressure sender is on or near the oil filter housing.

How can you say a mechanical is more Accurate? From my experience with Autometer gauges (ultralite series i believe?) they were junk. Inaccurate junk.

Things to remember about running a mechanical gauge, you are going to run oil and water lines into your cabin of the vehicle. If either of these were to break you will have hot oil and hot water to enjoy in your vehicle.

The gauges that I have in my car are full electric (GReddy Peak/Hold/Warning gauges), they have a seperate sending unit that recieves the information from the sensor.

I believe the autometer cobalts are in the higher end spectrum of the Autometer world. The ultralites are in the 30 dollar range and I've had nothing but inaccuracy with them.

Gridikal
January 10th, 2005, 19:12
I believe the autometer cobalts are in the higher end spectrum of the Autometer world. The ultralites are in the 30 dollar range and I've had nothing but inaccuracy with them.
You can say that again. Voltage was 100 and temp was 120 off ebay for cryin out loud. Was a gift from a distant relative cuz I'm not gonna pay that much for gauges- I'll have to get them to send me rockrails this year
The cobalts are pretty damn nice though.

johnnyc
January 10th, 2005, 19:31
How can you say a mechanical is more Accurate? From my experience with Autometer gauges (ultralite series i believe?) they were junk.
Just my stupid opinion. I should have said that I prefer a mechanical gauge's 270 degree sweep rather than an electrical's 75 (or so) degree sweep.

I ran mechanicals in my old Chevelle and as long as you are careful installing them, you won't have to worry about leakage. I never had a leak in 8 years.

bl|nk
January 11th, 2005, 14:54
You can say that again. Voltage was 100 and temp was 120 off ebay for cryin out loud. Was a gift from a distant relative cuz I'm not gonna pay that much for gauges- I'll have to get them to send me rockrails this year
The cobalts are pretty damn nice though.

You think that's bad.. I paid 200 - 220 per gauge in my Rx-7 :D I only have 3 of those.. and then a Wideband o2 (a/f) which was 550 :P

I've heard good things about the cobalt series, just my personal experienc with the ultalites being inaccurate. The autometer a/f gauge is a disco light that tells you very little other than being a purdy light display.

Loose_Nuts_Enterprises
January 11th, 2005, 16:21
Things to remember about running a mechanical gauge, you are going to run oil and water lines into your cabin of the vehicle. If either of these were to break you will have hot oil and hot water to enjoy in your vehicle.



I don't recall ever seeing a mechanical temp guage that sends coolant directly to the guage.

RichP
January 11th, 2005, 17:04
I don't recall ever seeing a mechanical temp guage that sends coolant directly to the guage.

Me either, I've got a bunch of S&W Phase III and IV gauges and all of them use electrical senders... I have not seen a mechanical tach since an early 60's era vette...
The advantage of the tube type oil pressure gauge is they are quicker to respond than the electrical types provided they have been 'tubed' correctly with nice smooth bends and stuff.

outlawjeep
January 12th, 2005, 04:05
Well then here is another question... Did the 97+ XJs come with actual guages or were they all idiot lights. If they did come with the full guages then are thay a direct replacement for the ones with the idiot lights?


Thanks

RichP
January 12th, 2005, 04:37
The 97+ idiot light to gauge swap is a direct plug in, no sender changes, no wiring mods. The only difference you might see is the 'low fluid' light might come on and stay on and your 'low fluid' light is now the 'security' light, 'low fluid' as in low windshield washer fluid. All I did was remove the 'low fluid' bulb from the cluster and that was it.
When you get your donor panel pull your idiot light cluster out and lay them on a bench side by side, see if the 'security' and 'low fluid' lights are in the same place or if they are reversed, you can also see it from behind. In my case the gauge panel came out of a TJ so that might have something to do with it, thinking about it I think I'll compare it to the panels in the two TJ's we have. When my windshield washer fluid gets low the 'security' light comes on now...
The whole process took me about an hour, I allowed the system to sit for 20 min after I disconnected the battery just in case there was anything funky with the airbag ckt. When I powered everything back up I reclined the drivers seat all the way back before turning the key and let it run that way for a minute or so, nothing like an airbag blowing in your face to make your day interesting. The FSM is pretty cautious about this and recommends it when doing any work in that area so I followed their recommendations that were in that section of the manual. I have a 98XJ.

bl|nk
January 12th, 2005, 18:06
I don't recall ever seeing a mechanical temp guage that sends coolant directly to the guage.


Autometer Ulta-Lite mechanical Water Temp gauge

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=esearch.asp&N=110&Ntk=KeywordSearch&Ntt=autometer&x=0&y=0

"Notes Includes 6 ft. capillary tubing."

Autometer Ulta-Lite mechanical oil temp gauge

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=esearch.asp&N=110&Ntk=KeywordSearch&Ntt=autometer&x=0&y=0

"Notes Includes 6 ft. nylon tubing."

Yes it runs lines into the interior of the vehicle both the water and the oil temp.

No a mechanical gauge (unless the ubber expensive) is not going to be as accurate as a quality electric gauge w/ sender.

If the gauge had a 'sender' it's no longer a mechanical gauge it's electrical.


"3) "Yes - mechanicals did appear to be more accurate" - another true statement - at the time! Since the mid-1970's, however, the gains in electronic technology, component costs, and assembly methods have made electronic instruments available at a reasonable price and with an accuracy and reliability that rivals even the most expensive mechanical units."

http://www.classicinstruments.net/index.phtml?catid=43

bl|nk
January 12th, 2005, 18:17
Me either, I've got a bunch of S&W Phase III and IV gauges and all of them use electrical senders... I have not seen a mechanical tach since an early 60's era vette...
The advantage of the tube type oil pressure gauge is they are quicker to respond than the electrical types provided they have been 'tubed' correctly with nice smooth bends and stuff.


Yes and no on the tube being correctly ran. Does the tube expand/contract, does ambient temperature affect it, does pressure affect it? Compare that to T'n off of the factory oil pressure sensor and adding another oil pressure sensor?

Loose_Nuts_Enterprises
January 12th, 2005, 19:33
Autometer Ulta-Lite mechanical Water Temp gauge

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=esearch.asp&N=110&Ntk=KeywordSearch&Ntt=autometer&x=0&y=0

"Notes Includes 6 ft. capillary tubing."

Autometer Ulta-Lite mechanical oil temp gauge

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=esearch.asp&N=110&Ntk=KeywordSearch&Ntt=autometer&x=0&y=0

"Notes Includes 6 ft. nylon tubing."

Yes it runs lines into the interior of the vehicle both the water and the oil temp.

No a mechanical gauge (unless the ubber expensive) is not going to be as accurate as a quality electric gauge w/ sender.

If the gauge had a 'sender' it's no longer a mechanical gauge it's electrical.


"3) "Yes - mechanicals did appear to be more accurate" - another true statement - at the time! Since the mid-1970's, however, the gains in electronic technology, component costs, and assembly methods have made electronic instruments available at a reasonable price and with an accuracy and reliability that rivals even the most expensive mechanical units."

http://www.classicinstruments.net/index.phtml?catid=43

Here's some info I got while researching the "coolant in the tube" theory:
There are two types of sending units. One type uses a Bourdon tube instrument, a capillary tube filled with a special gas, and a capsule, or bulb. The other type uses an electric sender receiver.

The Bourdon tube type works by having one end of the tube attached to the gauge fitting, and the free end fastened to the needle indicator. A Bourdon tube is a round, hollow metal tube. Putting pressure on the hollow end causes it to try to straighten, so that the other end moves the needle on the gauge. Because it is placed in an engine water jacket, the pressure from the coolant temperature causes it to move, which, in turn forces the other end to move the gauge needle. When the coolant cools, the lack of pressure allows the needle to swing back to cold on the gauge.


Taken from: http://www.partsamerica.com/Auto101Cooling2.asp

RichP
January 12th, 2005, 20:40
Yes and no on the tube being correctly ran. Does the tube expand/contract, does ambient temperature affect it, does pressure affect it? Compare that to T'n off of the factory oil pressure sensor and adding another oil pressure sensor?

Actually the oil pressure gauge that uses the tube comes in two flavors, plastic and copper. Personally I use copper when running them but I also put the correct sprials in place when turning corners and such for stress and vibration relief. The plastic always made me nervous because I had seen several leak or detach from their end adapters or get worn thru from friction or sharp edges. The gauge itself is reading real time pressure inside, remember that type of gauge has real live engine oil in it and when one lets go at 10,000rpm at 60 or 70 psi the spray of oil in the dashboard or engine area is to say the least, impressive. Response in pressure changes is almost instantanous vs the electrical sender type that has dampening built into the gauge so respone to sudden pressure changes lags about 2 seconds behind the true pressure both going up and down. At high rpms 2 seconds is a l-o-n-g time and if a pump is failing you can't see it with a dampened gauge, with a dampened gauge all you will see is a gradually declining oil pressure, with a live oil gauge you will see the pulses as the pressure goes down, how well you see it is based on the quality of the gauge hence the price difference between a $10 RAC/Sun made gauge [which was sold by every store that had an auto dept] vs a $50 Stewart Warner which was sold by real speed shops, those prices by the way were in 1970 dollars which puts that SW gauge about in the $200 ballpark bracket today. VDO I don't know about, never used them and the only time I came across them was in foreign cars.
Almost missed that last, I have used the T setup, I had a 73 vega that had an electric fuel pump, after the 2nd slicone aluminum 4 banger bit the dust I put a Motion Minicar phase III 350/425hp V8 in it with a B&M built T400, used the T to keep the electronic sender in place to keep the fuel pump happy and used the T to supply my 6" SW oil pressure gauge that was mounted on top of the dash board where most 'racers' put a tach which kept me happy... If you know WTF your doing and know your engine you don't need the tach in front of your eyes and thats why the oil pressure gauge had two big assed lights on it, yellow and red, yellow for 'gettn close' to redline, red for 'you're there and are about to buy a new engine'.

outlawjeep
January 13th, 2005, 00:26
Cool thanks a lot! I just found my cluster today and will be installing it probably next weekend. Thanks for the info on the sensor though. I will have to be careful when installing things.

XTrmXJ
January 13th, 2005, 02:16
Hey Ray just get the set up from another junker that has everything, It should hook up fine, Nice to see you on here

outlawjeep
January 14th, 2005, 20:38
Thanks John. Been on here from time to time. Just don't get on here as much as I would like. Oh and I got the new cluster and a tilt colum from a place up in Richmond. I should be picking them up next week.