Problems after gear install

jkkj · Jan 8, 2005

I have 50 pages of articles about chrysler 8.25 gear installs, and think I remember reading about this, but can not find a post about it.

I put 4.56 gears in. As I put in my lockright, I figure out my center pin is hitting the ring gear and will not go in.

What do I need to do to get it in?

Seems like I have read articles about grinding on the gearset or the center pin. What do you guys suggest? I am thinking because of the spring placement in the lockright I am going to have to grind the gearset, but am hesitant. Again, what do you guys suggest?

bgcntry72 · Jan 8, 2005

Running 4.56s on an 8.25 you *will* need to grind one, maybe two teeth, just enough to slide the centerpin through.
Don't worry about it, you will still have more than enough mesh on the teeth.
Grind a little, try the pin, and if needed, grind a little more.
This is common, and you are doing nothing wrong.
HTH.

gfi · Jan 8, 2005

Why not take the ring gear off and put the locker in?

bgcntry72 · Jan 8, 2005

gfi said:
Why not take the ring gear off and put the locker in?

Do you have any clue what you are talking about here?
Ever set gears?
The 8.25 is a c-clip axle, and the centerpin goes in last to keep the whole thing, you know, together.
There is NO WAY to get the center pin into the carrier without grinding the heel off of one or usually two of the ring gear teeth.
HTH.

old_man · Jan 8, 2005

It seems like I remember somebody saying that you can orient the ring gear in such a direction that the pin slides between a couple of teeth, but I'm getting old and my memory is failing :laugh3: Either way, the grinding of a tooth or two a little bit shouldn't hurt. Lots of people have done it. I always wondered about balance, but I haven't heard of anybody complaining.

Beezil · Jan 8, 2005

bgcntry72 said:
Do you have any clue what you are talking about here?
Ever set gears?
The 8.25 is a c-clip axle, and the centerpin goes in last to keep the whole thing, you know, together.
There is NO WAY to get the center pin into the carrier without grinding the heel off of one or usually two of the ring gear teeth.
HTH.

Times a million.

grinding the topland of the tooth is the ONLY way in this situation.

listen to experience, not e-mechanics.

gfi · Jan 8, 2005

bgcntry72 said:
Do you have any clue what you are talking about here?
Ever set gears?
The 8.25 is a c-clip axle, and the centerpin goes in last to keep the whole thing, you know, together.
There is NO WAY to get the center pin into the carrier without grinding the heel off of one or usually two of the ring gear teeth.
HTH.

If you grind a clearance area on the cross pin big enough to push your axle in to get the C-clip on that is in plane with the hole for the roll pin or retaining bolt then you can rotate it to get both c clips in and then rotate it so when you line up the retaining pin and the dimeter of the pin where the axles rub against it hasn't changed. The center of the pin is not the stressed part so this should cause no issues.

By the way I have built 3 Toyota 8" axles 2 Toyota 8.8" axles, 2 Ford 7.5" axles, 3 GM 10 bolts, 3 Dana 44s, a dana 60 and 2 ford 9" axles. I have not built the Chrysler 8.25 but I don't think the have internals to much different from the axles I mentioned previously. I have also never installed a lockright as they seem to blow up a little too easy. If there is some part of the install process I am unaware of that requires no modification to the cross pin then I am sorry I suggested it. I am just trying to help.

It seems as though if grinding teeth was required in all cases then they would do it from the factory.

bj-666 · Jan 8, 2005

i used my dremel to grind a tooth down on my 8.8 it took a little while but i didn't take away any more than needed. seeing as most of the contact is on the center of the tooth taking a little off the topland does not hurt as much as weakining the cross pin which is what the lockrite relys on to function.

never thought about rotating the gear maby that works try that if u got time just check the pattern when u done rotating.

bgcntry72 · Jan 8, 2005

gfi said:
I have not built the Chrysler 8.25

No offense, but you have no frame of reference here, Donny.
I would much rather grind a tooth or two than compromise the centerpin in a c-clip axle.
BTW, I learned to drive on a John Deere 4010, which is as relevant to this thread as Toyota axles.
Take care.

Beezil · Jan 8, 2005

gfi said:
If you grind a clearance area on the cross pin big enough to push your axle in to get the C-clip on that is in plane with the hole for the roll pin or retaining bolt then you can rotate it to get both c clips in and then rotate it so when you line up the retaining pin and the dimeter of the pin where the axles rub against it hasn't changed. The center of the pin is not the stressed part so this should cause no issues.

It seems as though if grinding teeth was required in all cases then they would do it from the factory.

hey guy? silence yourself.

you are comitting serious spobi...

this guy is setting up 4.56 gears in a 8 1/4 WITH A LOCKRIGHT.

It is apparent you cannot speak from personal experience, and it is NOT helpful.

you SHOULD NOT grind any part of the cross pin on a lock right or even a no-slip!!!!!!!!!!

I just had to re-do an axle that the previous installer ground a flat spot on the crosspin. This created an "escape route" for the 4 of the 8 springs that ride on the crosspin. the springs fell into the R&P and got chewed up by the gears and bearings. I was hoping that the extra metal that got gobbled up did not destroy the gearset, but unfortunatly it did.......Now the owner must purchase ANOTHER gear set and pay for ANOTHER install........

all this because the IDIOT didn't know what the hell he was doing and ground the crosspin like you suggest....

so please, once again.....if you do not have first-hand experience with something techincal and expensive in this forum, read.....don't type.

gfi · Jan 8, 2005

bgcntry72 said:
No offense, but you have no frame of reference here, Donny.
I would much rather grind a tooth or two than compromise the centerpin in a c-clip axle.
BTW, I learned to drive on a John Deere 4010, which is as relevant to this thread as Toyota axles.
Take care.

I don't know who Donny is but weather the axle is ford toyota chrysler gm or dana they all function in the same fashion. The cross pin is stressed in shear at the area where it goes in to the case. therefore the most critical and highly stressed part of the cross pin is that area, The center of the pin takes much less stress than the area near the case.

You guys who say just grind the gears may be correct but as you grind those gears you are affecting the heat treat of the gear itself. You are annealing the gear tooth. This causes the tooth to loose hardness and also it's ultimate strength. This may cause premature failure later on.

BillR · Jan 8, 2005

Beezil said:
hey guy? silence yourself.

you are comitting serious spobi...

this guy is setting up 4.56 gears in a 8 1/4 WITH A LOCKRIGHT.

It is apparent you cannot speak from personal experience, and it is NOT helpful.

you SHOULD NOT grind any part of the cross pin on a lock right or even a no-slip!!!!!!!!!!

I just had to re-do an axle that the previous installer ground a flat spot on the crosspin. This created an "escape route" for the 4 of the 8 springs that ride on the crosspin. the springs fell into the R&P and got chewed up by the gears and bearings. I was hoping that the extra metal that got gobbled up did not destroy the gearset, but unfortunatly it did.......Now the owner must purchase ANOTHER gear set and pay for ANOTHER install........

all this because the IDIOT didn't know what the hell he was doing and ground the crosspin like you suggest....

so please, once again.....if you do not have first-hand experience with something techincal and expensive in this forum, read.....don't type.

Well said! :lecture:

gfi · Jan 8, 2005

Beezil said:
hey guy? silence yourself.

you are comitting serious spobi...

this guy is setting up 4.56 gears in a 8 1/4 WITH A LOCKRIGHT.

It is apparent you cannot speak from personal experience, and it is NOT helpful.

you SHOULD NOT grind any part of the cross pin on a lock right or even a no-slip!!!!!!!!!!

I just had to re-do an axle that the previous installer ground a flat spot on the crosspin. This created an "escape route" for the 4 of the 8 springs that ride on the crosspin. the springs fell into the R&P and got chewed up by the gears and bearings. I was hoping that the extra metal that got gobbled up did not destroy the gearset, but unfortunatly it did.......Now the owner must purchase ANOTHER gear set and pay for ANOTHER install........

all this because the IDIOT didn't know what the hell he was doing and ground the crosspin like you suggest....

so please, once again.....if you do not have first-hand experience with something techincal and expensive in this forum, read.....don't type.

Like I said before I haven't done a lockright install and that what I am saying may not apply but grinding gears is not great for the heat treatment the gears go through. If it works for you go for it.

Beezil · Jan 8, 2005

gfi said:
I don't know who Donny is but weather the axle is ford toyota chrysler gm or dana they all function in the same fashion. The cross pin is stressed in shear at the area where it goes in to the case. therefore the most critical and highly stressed part of the cross pin is that area, The center of the pin takes much less stress than the area near the case.

You guys who say just grind the gears may be correct but as you grind those gears you are affecting the heat treat of the gear itself. You are annealing the gear tooth. This causes the tooth to loose hardness and also it's ultimate strength. This may cause premature failure later on.

done a lock right?

how bout a no-slip?

obviously not.

take the thread from the top...

Chry 8 1/4

4.56 gears

Lockright.

THE PROPER PROCEDURE FOR INSTALLING THE CROSSPIN IS TO GRIND THE TOPLAND OF THE GEAR TOOTH (ends up being minimal)

You should absolutly NOT grind the crosspin, which in the case of a locker like the no-slip REPLACES the oem crosspin with one made from special material and hardened. THIS CROSSPIN CANNOT be ground since it would create an escape route for the springs.

GFI......***READ*** don't type.....you've already committed to enough self-ownage as it is. Back-pedaling at this point would be foolish.

bj-666 · Jan 8, 2005

gfi said:
You guys who say just grind the gears may be correct but as you grind those gears you are affecting the heat treat of the gear itself. You are annealing the gear tooth. This causes the tooth to loose hardness and also it's ultimate strength. This may cause premature failure later on.

well if you sit there with the grinder holding it to the teeth u will ruin the hardness but who is going to do that u want to tap the grinder or use a more precise tool such as a small grinder/dremel which does not cause enough heat to even make the tooth warm.

and have u ever installed a lockright they rely on the cross pin much more than standard spider gears as the carier spins it pushes into the lockright and spreads out the inner plates on the lockright causing the gears to be held togethere if one side is ground down it not only weakens it but will not alow one side of the lockright to lock. it also alows the lockright to twist and break springs like bezil said.

against how i and others feel auburn gear when they sent me my locker clearly stated to grind the cross pin to allow fitment with their carier. the main difference i feel is the lockright/spider gears they effect the cross pin differently and should be taken into account.

OT · Jan 8, 2005

Add me to the list of those agreeing that this guy knows not about that in which he speaks.

You MUST grind the gear tooth. No two ways about it.

gfi,
Use the search feature, find a clue, then come back and admit how stupid you are........acting. You may be a genius about most things mechanical, but somehow I doubt it.

gfi · Jan 8, 2005

Beezil said:
done a lock right?

how bout a no-slip?

obviously not.

take the thread from the top...

Chry 8 1/4

4.56 gears

Lockright.

THE PROPER PROCEDURE FOR INSTALLING THE CROSSPIN IS TO GRIND THE TOPLAND OF THE GEAR TOOTH (ends up being minimal)

You should absolutly NOT grind the crosspin, which in the case of a locker like the no-slip REPLACES the oem crosspin with one made from special material and hardened. THIS CROSSPIN CANNOT be ground since it would create an escape route for the springs.

GFI......***READ*** don't type.....you've already committed to enough self-ownage as it is. Back-pedaling at this point would be foolish.

gfi said:
If there is some part of the install process I am unaware of that requires no modification to the cross pin then I am sorry I suggested it. I am just trying to help.

Chrysler 8.25 & 8.375
Make Year
W-100 - Rear 66-02
W-200 - Rear 66-02
D-100 - Rear 66-02
B-100 - Rear 66-02
B-200 - Rear 66-02
Dakota - Rear 91-02
All Passenger Cars
Street Gear
Ratio Teeth Part No.
3.55 39-11 49-0074-1
3.91 43-11 49-0076-1
4.10 41-10 69-0314-1*
4.56 41-9 69-0316-1*
Fits 2.73 ratio and numerically
higher carrier.
*Cross shaft pin 80-0278-1
required.

This is from Richmod Gears website. As you can see a special cross shaft is required for installation of the 4.1 and 4.56 gear sets. Now the funny part is that they also make the lock right and no slip. The lock right to my understanding uses the stock cross pin, if this is the case then you can order the special cross pin from richmond if you are going to use 4.1 or 4.56 gears. If you are installing a no slip it comes with its own Zytanium (by the way the zytanium is in as cast condition and is not hardened!) cross shaft. If this is the case they should offer a speacial Zytanium cross shaft for those installing a no slip in the rear of a Chrysler 8.25 with 4.1 up gears. Maybe someone should give them a call and get this cleared up.

Anyway back to the point a special cross pin is required for use with the 4.56 gears mentioned and in the case of the Lock Right which uses the stock cross pin there is one available so that you don't have to grind gears. But go ahead and grind it!

Click to expand...

bgcntry72 · Jan 8, 2005

gfi said:
I have also never installed a lockright as they seem to blow up a little too easy.

How many have blown up on you?
You can use a stock crosspin with a LockRight, regardless of the gear ratio.
The NoSlip comes with the crosspin, which is a $40 option on the LockRight.
Worth every penny.
Mine have not 'blown up' yet, and I am not gentile on them, neither are the 4.88s.
Experience is a cruel teacher, but you learn, dammit, you learn.
Have a nice day scanning the daily paper to see if any of your 'mistakes' were corrected.
:wave:

gfi · Jan 8, 2005

bgcntry72 said:
How many have blown up on you?
You can use a stock crosspin with a LockRight, regardless of the gear ratio.
The NoSlip comes with the crosspin, which is a $40 option on the LockRight.
Worth every penny.
Mine have not 'blown up' yet, and I am not gentile on them, neither are the 4.88s.
Experience is a cruel teacher, but you learn, dammit, you learn.
Have a nice day scanning the daily paper to see if any of your 'mistakes' were corrected.
:wave:

It's nice to see that the forum members here are so nice to one another! Is there ever a comment left without a backhanded remark attached to it. I thought this was a comunity of friendly people helping each other out. Haha

Anyway as you mentioned the weak link (and reason I never used them) was that lock-rights reused the stock cross shaft which is what always broke on freinds of mine who used them. If they sell a stronger replacement cross shaft and you and hopefully others have had good luck with them than I might look to them as an option in the future.

Anyway its been a great discussion.

Lucas · Jan 8, 2005

I had to grind a tooth to get my no-slip D30 cross shaft in. I was hesitant at first, but I used a pneumatic cutoff wheel and made several little passes to shave a little bit of the tooth each time. I took off just enough of the tooth so that the shaft could be gently tapped in with a hammer.
I don't think the metal ever got hot enough to effect anything as I have put several thousand road miles on it and several hard wheeling trips with no probs.

Problems after gear install

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