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AndyS
July 20th, 2004, 17:16
Well, the OEM pump finally packed it in after 152K miles. Not bad, I'd say. And with the way the pully/shaft was wobbling, I'm surprised there was ANY water circulation, but something must've been moving the water cause it hasn't gone over 210-ish at all, even in stop-n-go traffic.

Anyways, what brand(s) do people recommend? There's always OEM again, but I also have Auto Bone, NAPA, and several other small stores available. I need to pick a brand that is in stock locally (time is an issue here...), so "high performance", high volume pumps available through mail order/internet are not an option. Besides, I'm not sure that "high volume" means better cooling anyways. Price is always a consideration, but I don't mind paying for legitimate quality.

Maybe a better question would be: what brand SHOULDN'T I get?

Thanks!

Andy

Arakele
July 20th, 2004, 18:03
my only suggestion is getting a new not a reman unit. when i worked in auto parts i saw wayy too many defects comming from reman units. Cardone is the leading reman company in the us and supplies the house brand for autozone, pep boys and advance. they just throw a different sticker on the box. airtek, is a cheaper NEW water pump that i havnt heard too many troubles on. matter of fact they were our biggest competitor. me personally if its not made by federal-mogul than i dont touch it. Carter is FM's brand and they work superbly. i heard about a year and a half ago that Gates was going to have their own line of water pumps as well. so if i find one of those i may try it out next time.

Ed in North Ga.
July 20th, 2004, 18:12
while Ive never had a problem with a re-man, Ive got the "new" bug myself...why take a chance? get new. I`m carrying a new cardon in my floorboard now..awaiting the day this pump fails....still awaiting...and waiting...200,000 and still waiting....i may have to take the new one back so the old one will finally go bad. It sounds like a bunch of birds have nested in there....will see....mybe tomorrow, maybe next year...but its on its way.

also- re-verify if you have a reverse flow pump or not. Double check the new one BEFORE you leave the store. theres starting to be horror stories circulateing the net on useing the wrong pump....

and if you knew that, cuss me. i can take it. :)

AndyS
July 20th, 2004, 18:37
Ed, I wasn't aware that there were different styles of pumps to watch out for - I've never heard of a reverse flow pump for the 4.0...I have a '94 - which pump do I have and how do I determine if it's reverse flow or not when I purchase it? Does it have to do with the direction the impeller rotates?

Thanks for the replies, guys.

Andy

jneary
July 20th, 2004, 18:51
any good parts source should be able to get the right pump. however if is like my 89, a new pump isnt available. check out the options for prices and warranties, and then decide.

Arakele
July 20th, 2004, 20:14
any good parts source should be able to get the right pump. however if is like my 89, a new pump isnt available. check out the options for prices and warranties, and then decide.

about 8 months ago carter still made pumps for an 88.. i dont see how it would be any different, or why they would have stopped producing them.


GOOD is the correct wording when applying to a parts store. most Napa's Carquests, Parts Depot (all pro, auto value, bumper to bumper), Walker, and most mom and pop shops will find the correct parts. meanwhile you go to your local 24/7 Wal-Part, then you lose quality sales folks that actually know WTF they are doing. in those chain stores that pop up on every corner like its a starbucks, is where you tend to find the 5 dollar an hour kid that has no clue what hes doing. He just chose it because its better than working at the local McD's

best way to check on which parts store is real.. call ahead and ask for a radiator cap or thermostat for a 1977 VW Super Beetle. If it takes longer than 2 minutes for an answer, i would not even bother with them.

Yucca-Man
July 20th, 2004, 21:32
best way to check on which parts store is real.. call ahead and ask for a radiator cap or thermostat for a 1977 VW Super Beetle. If it takes longer than 2 minutes for an answer, i would not even bother with them.2 minutes? If they can't tell you within 5 seconds that you're full of sh** you need to move on.

jjepfreek
July 20th, 2004, 22:00
I work part time at the local bumper to bumper here in rapid and must say that I have lots of fun calling our Checkers parts store, asking them for wiper blades on a 00 xj, and they have no clue what an xj is.

I would agree that new is better, with usually a lifetime warranty, however, I have not seen that may reman pumps coming back. so in my opinion, it all depends on your pocket book and availability

Jeepfreek

00 XJ 4.5 rubicon superflex with 33 12.50 mtr's

Ed in North Ga.
July 21st, 2004, 04:33
Ed, I wasn't aware that there were different styles of pumps to watch out for - I've never heard of a reverse flow pump for the 4.0...I have a '94 - which pump do I have and how do I determine if it's reverse flow or not when I purchase it? Does it have to do with the direction the impeller rotates?

Thanks for the replies, guys.

Andy
the absolute easiest way to know if its a reverse pump or not, is to look at it.
On the face/waterneck, or on the impeller inside, will be stamped REV or R- the 87-90 renix era were mostly all reverse rotation pumps- unknown if the HO series/chrysler 4.0s were or not, not really my area. Thats where the problem rise`s- parts store people may just grab a 4.0 pump for any-year.
The one I bought for my 89 was new in box, cardone, for $39 I believe- a reman. OEM with cheapo, laughable, rediculouse, insane , 15 day warrenty was $19. Bless NAPA, they got the goods.

When you pull your pump, hold it up to the new one- make sure the vanes on the impeller are going the correct direction, theres no slag/trash sitting in the galley(kindly hand it back to them if there is) and its straight where it mounts.
Crooked faces are uncommon, but do happen- Ive seen it twice- put the pump edge on a flat counter, and rotate it-check for clearence. Minimal clearence is NOT acceptable in my pump, but the gasket can cover some difference...use the tacky stuff that should come in box with the new pump(permagasket) to glue the new gasket on the new pump....or get a few gaskets to replace the one that will tear when you dont have more handy.

PS: the last pump I installed I didnt use a gasket- i used, of all things, blue RTV- it worked and I dont know why. I didnt have a spare gasket....and yes, the waterpump gremlin snuck in and sliced the new gasket with his knife as I was installing and had my back turned....I hate him. He`s very bad and should be killed.

sjx40250
July 21st, 2004, 06:32
I also vote for quality and not a re-man. I have replaced at least three on my 90 during the 150K of ownership. The last one is a Flow-Kool. I know, I've read the threads. Hey, it is still going I made a couple of changes at the time of installation and can say that it has not made a negitive contribution to cooling.

Two other points.
1. I believe all 4.0 engines use a reverse pump. The reason is the rotation of the enigne and that the Harmonic Balancer pulls the belt from the water pump first with the belts back side (smooth) wrapped over the WP pulley. So it is the first accessory to be powered by the belt from the crank and in the opposite rotation of the crank.

2. All my failures have been due to the seal failing. I believe that the belt tension is a major contributor to the failure. Don't over tighten the belt. Doing so will cause premature failure of the bearing which will cause the seal to fail. I don't know for sure because I have not taken a pump apart. It maybe that re-man pumps, which get a new seal and bearing, do not get a new casting that the bearing is seated in. That surface may not be cylindrical but hour glass shaped. Pressing the bearing in will still work, but over time will fail sooner.

Number 2 has a lot of speculation in it with reference to failure but, it could be true. Do you want to take the chance for the difference in time and money?

Jay Welch
July 21st, 2004, 08:35
Buy a new pump ....not rebuilt.

I have an '89. Had the reman pump off and on 3 times for a leak at the gasket surface...turns out they must sandblast that surface when rebuilding....could not get it to stop leaking. Bought a new pump...machined surface....no leakey.

Airtex had new pumps and would assume that they still do since they are a lifetime warranty

Good luck,
Jay in MA

Yucca-Man
July 21st, 2004, 09:26
sjx40250 is right about the pump and the 4.0L. Renix or HO doesn't matter, it's a reverse rotation pump; on the v-belt driven 4.2L block the pump runs the other direction. I replaced mine a few weeks ago and took a picture (that I will eventually post) of the impellers to make sure they are facing the right way...there are still a few shots left in the camera so I won't develop it yet. Yes - film camera. How quaint...

AndyS
July 21st, 2004, 10:17
Anyone heard of Durapro? That's what my local NAPA is selling. $37 is the right price, and it's new, not used, but I've never heard of the brand.

Andy

tellicorick
July 21st, 2004, 13:50
One word; FLOWCOOLER! Yeah, it's more money, but man does it keep the temp down and the flow up. One of the first things I did to mine when I bought it.

red91
July 21st, 2004, 14:05
I work part time at the local bumper to bumper here in rapid and must say that I have lots of fun calling our Checkers parts store, asking them for wiper blades on a 00 xj, and they have no clue what an xj is.

I would agree that new is better, with usually a lifetime warranty, however, I have not seen that may reman pumps coming back. so in my opinion, it all depends on your pocket book and availability

Jeepfreek

00 XJ 4.5 rubicon superflex with 33 12.50 mtr's

thats all well and good, but can you get me a cat for an 84 124 body mercedes?

Unless you deal with them all the time at the shop you cant expect someone to figure out what the body types are.

BTW I need a muffler for my SUNBEAM...

see what I mean?

AndyS
July 22nd, 2004, 11:46
Alpine or Tiger?

And if you're talking about the E class 124 body, those started in '86... :roll:

red91
July 22nd, 2004, 12:16
Alpine or Tiger?

And if you're talking about the E class 124 body, those started in '86... :roll:


Your showing your age... most guys I know think sunbeam is a toaster :laugh2:

and you solved the false mercedes question. Just a little more complicated that a radiator cap for a super beetle :o