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gearing question, im a little confused

dellstopjeep

NAXJA Forum User
Location
KUNA, ID
i am aout to put in 4.56 gears and will right now be running 31's but in a month be running 33 12.50's, the last couple shops i have stopped by to buy misc. parts etc, they have told me that i wont even be able to get it up to freeway speed. and that i will have no power. im pretty sure tho this fixes power losses due to undergearing and will make it so you are running more of a stock setup like 26 inch tires with 3.55's. can someone straighten me out so i dont get worried about doing the wrong thing here
thanks
eric
 
dellstopjeep said:
i am aout to put in 4.56 gears and will right now be running 31's but in a month be running 33 12.50's, the last couple shops i have stopped by to buy misc. parts etc, they have told me that i wont even be able to get it up to freeway speed. and that i will have no power. im pretty sure tho this fixes power losses due to undergearing and will make it so you are running more of a stock setup like 26 inch tires with 3.55's. can someone straighten me out so i dont get worried about doing the wrong thing here
thanks
eric

They don't know what they are talking about. You should have no problem running 75 mph. If you do more Highway miles you mileage may suffer a bit until you get trhe 33's. If your doing more street, your mileage may improve.
 
dellstopjeep said:
i am aout to put in 4.56 gears and will right now be running 31's but in a month be running 33 12.50's, the last couple shops i have stopped by to buy misc. parts etc, they have told me that i wont even be able to get it up to freeway speed. and that i will have no power. im pretty sure tho this fixes power losses due to undergearing and will make it so you are running more of a stock setup like 26 inch tires with 3.55's. can someone straighten me out so i dont get worried about doing the wrong thing here
thanks
eric

AUTO OR MANUAL?
 
automatic,

and to chuck, i dont do much highway driving right now, so im happy one of the negative affects wont hit me to bad. :yelclap:
 
i hate when j/o's have to rain on your parade by telling someone with not much expieince in that area that they cant do that. I was told not to do 4.88's a few years back b/c it would kill my highway speed and would rev too high. F*ck them, they don't know sh*yt. I did the 4.88's and not the 4.56 they recommended and looking back on it i wish i did 5.13's. Listen to people with expierince not people who think they have expierience.
 
Send me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll send you a spread sheet showing engine RPMs for various road speeds for just about any tire size and grear ratio combination you're likely to see under an XJ.

Right now I run 31s with 3.73 gears. 65 MPH is about 2200 RPM in 5th gear (overdrive). With 4.56s that would increase to 2690 RPM. That's hardly going to blow the engine. Remember -- the 4-bangers came with 4.10 gears and 205/75R15 tires.
 
Auto with 31s and 4.56 no problems. I've been runnning that way for a year and love it. You can go about 80 and be just around 3000RPMs. With the Jeep lifted higher (read more wind resistance) and all the added weight I still drop down to 3rd gear when pulling a steep grade on the Highway. Offroad the added low end control is great for finesse. Also with the lower gearing and a "1-2" switch on the transmission I'm much happier finding the right gear for long decents back to camp.

Anyway just my $.02.

Enjoy,

Matt
 
Eagle said:
Send me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll send you a spread sheet showing engine RPMs for various road speeds for just about any tire size and grear ratio combination you're likely to see under an XJ.

Right now I run 31s with 3.73 gears. 65 MPH is about 2200 RPM in 5th gear (overdrive). With 4.56s that would increase to 2690 RPM. That's hardly going to blow the engine. Remember -- the 4-bangers came with 4.10 gears and 205/75R15 tires.

does your spreadsheet take into account the differing final drive ratios of the available transmissions offered?

were you aware that there is conclusive info on two ratios being used on the aw-4's?
 
Beezil said:
does your spreadsheet take into account the differing final drive ratios of the available transmissions offered?

were you aware that there is conclusive info on two ratios being used on the aw-4's?

I was wondering also, your (Eagles) numbers seem high from my experience. I was using the following (assuming your 31s are 31" in diamter.)

Circumfrence = 97.34"
RPMs at tires at 65MPH = 705

4.56 Gears
1:1 4HI Transfer case
.753 Overdrive Transmission (AW4)

That gives me - 2421RPM with the torque converter Locked.

That matches my road testing and mathematically would put 26" tires and 65MPH at 2247RPM in OD. Which seems about right.

Am I off here somwhere?

Matt
 
Beezil said:
does your spreadsheet take into account the differing final drive ratios of the available transmissions offered?

were you aware that there is conclusive info on two ratios being used on the aw-4's?
It does ... sort of. There's a box where you enter your tranny's overdrive ratio and it corrects all the entries on the spreadsheet from that. It doesn't have a lookup table that tells you what that ratio is, though. You have to find it somewhere else. Easiest way is to run a constant 50 MPH in 3rd gear for auto or 4th gear for 5-speeds (1:1 ratio) and record the RPMs, then drop into overdrive and record the RPMs for the same 50 MPH. From there it's simple arithmetic.
 
mattb said:
I was wondering also, your (Eagles) numbers seem high from my experience. I was using the following (assuming your 31s are 31" in diamter.)

Circumfrence = 97.34"
RPMs at tires at 65MPH = 705

4.56 Gears
1:1 4HI Transfer case
.753 Overdrive Transmission (AW4)

That gives me - 2421RPM with the torque converter Locked.

That matches my road testing and mathematically would put 26" tires and 65MPH at 2247RPM in OD. Which seems about right.

Am I off here somwhere?

Matt
I don't know of any 31" tire that actually measures 31" in diameter. Most seem to fall in a range from 30.4" to 30.6". Then you have to account for the rolling radius when the sidewalls deflect.

I went to tire manufacturers' spec sheets and used their published numbers for revolutions per mile. I think it's far closer than using a mathematical circumerence derived from a nominal tire size. However, even the revs per mile vary for diferent tires from the same manufacturer, and of course for different manufacturers. The only way you can get it dead on would be to adjust all the input data for the spreadsheet for every different tire under consideration. Given that the speedos are never accurate to better than about 5% anyway, I think the way I did it is as accurate as anything available. It eliminates speedo error, it eliminates inflation pressure, and it eliminates the built-in error of using a circumference based on the nominal size of the tire.
 
My 5-spd will barely hold 50 mph in 5th gear, unless I'm going down a hill! I've also determined that the 5-spd in my 2001 is an NV3550, not an AX-15. Anyone know the gear ratios in that tranny.

In the end, though, the math is really pretty simple for calculating the gears you need. Whatever percentage you increase the tire size by, you need to reduce the gear ratio by at least that same percentage. So, if you go from stock tires that are roughly 28" in diameter to tires that are 31" in diameter then it is... 31-28 = 3; 3/28 = 0.107; assuming stock gears of 3.55, 1.107*3.55 = 3.93; nobody makes 3.93 gears so you have to decide between 3.73 and 4.10.

If you live in Iowa (or someplace equally flat) and do a lot of highway driving then you might want to go with 3.73. Most likely, though, you'd be happiest with the 4.10 gears. This is the subjective part of gear changes.

In any case, the math is the same, you just change the numbers for tire sizes and/or final drive ratio to match whatever yours is. If you want to know how high your engine will rev after a gear change it's the same kind of math, only a little easier. Let's say it runs at 2100 rpm in overdrive at 70 mph with stock gears. Again, assume stock gears are 3.55 and you're thinking of going to 4.56. So, 4.56/3.55=1.28; 2100*1.28=2688; this tells you that with the new gears and your current tires you'd be running near 2700 rpms at 70 mph in overdrive.

2700 rpms is a little high and would probably lower your gas mileage some, but it is far from "too high," you'd have no problem running that all day long, and the engine would pull right up to that speed with no trouble at all.

The math is simple, though, and you apply the same basic calculations to any speed/gear combination to figure out the results.

Good luck!
 
Just for grins and giggles, try plugging in values into this driveline calculator. It's one the better ones I've seen that takes a lot of things into consideration...

Grimm's Drive Line Calculator

Ivan
 
Those math calculators are useless...they always over-calculate RPM.

31's with 4.56 and auto tranny are sweet. I drove 2000 miles cross country with that setup at 80 mph running around 2,800 RPM. Towed a 5,000 lb trailer back. Gas mileage was as good as stock, meaning it always sucked. The only thing you lose is the ability to run 100 mph, which I assume you weren't planning anyway.

Just do it. You'll like the 31's on 4.56 more than you'll like the 33's.

Nay
 
dmillion said:
2700 rpms is a little high and would probably lower your gas mileage some, but it is far from "too high," you'd have no problem running that all day long, and the engine would pull right up to that speed with no trouble at all.
2700 is not even a little high.

Y'all need to remember that the basic design of this engine goes back to AMC in 1964, long before any of the manufacturers were installing overdrives as anything other than a very expensive option. The "typical" AMC 6'-cylinder had a 3-speed manual tranny (1:1 ratio in high gear), 3.08 gears, and tires smaller than the smallest tire that ever came on an XJ. This worked out to exactly 24 MPH per 1000 RPM. 60 MPH was 2500 RPM, and 72 MPH was 3000 RPM. Even geared like this, the engines routinely lasted better than 200,000 miles (we lost track of my brother's 1970 Gremlin at over 300,000) and got excellent gas mileage. My 1966 Rambler American (which was almost as much of a brick on wheels as an XJ) delivered 28 MPG highway routinely -- I only got that out of the XJ once.

The torque peak for the early 4.0L engines is at about 2500 RPM and it's much higher for the HOs. Discounting that aerodynamic drag increases exponentially, an engine runs most efficiently at or near the torque peak, so IMHO gearing to run below the torque peak is foolish. My 88 with 5'-speed gets the same mileage in 4th as it does in 5th, or better. I run 5th just to keep the noise level down a notch.
 
Beezil said:
does your spreadsheet take into account the differing final drive ratios of the available transmissions offered?

were you aware that there is conclusive info on two ratios being used on the aw-4's?

IIRC the older AW4's you'll be happy with 4.56's and newer you'd kill for 4.88's. There is a guy here locally with a 2000 and since he has 8.25 he went for 4.56's and it's hunting at highway speeds between gears.
 
Kejtar said:
IIRC the older AW4's you'll be happy with 4.56's and newer you'd kill for 4.88's. There is a guy here locally with a 2000 and since he has 8.25 he went for 4.56's and it's hunting at highway speeds between gears.
I guess that depends in part what your highway speeds are. I have 4.56, new AW-4 (what does that give me, 0.72?) and 32s. With a 40-tooth speedo gear I'm almost dead-on with speed and odometer, and my tach at 75-80mph reads about 2800-2900 rpm. I haven't gone through enough tanks yet to feel confident about my mileage, but it seems to have gone up slightly from my 3.55s (about 17-18mpg) - I believe it's getting about 19-20 right now.
 
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