Gear pattern frustration advice please

Barger · Jul 13, 2004

I'm installing 4.88 in a Dana 44. The backlash is .006 I've shimmed the pinion depth to the point I'm using the smallest shim I have to set pinion preload. This is the pattern I keep getting or worse. What's wrong???? I feel like I'm missing something. Next idea was back off on pinion depth and shim for backlash. But when I've done that the pattern moves out more to the heel of the tooth.

Beezil · Jul 13, 2004

the pinion needs to come into the ring gear bigtime.

meaning, your pinion depth shims need to get thicker.

do not worry about pinion preload yet.

and obviously, if you bring the pinion toward the ringgear, your backlash will get tighter, so you will need to take away shims from the ringgear side, and put them on the other side of the carrier, as you bring your pinion out.

do not worry about heel/toe

concentrate on root and topland.

ChuckD · Jul 13, 2004

Beezil said:
the pinion needs to come into the ring gear bigtime.

meaning, your pinion depth shims need to get thicker.

do not worry about pinion preload yet.

and obviously, if you bring the pinion toward the ringgear, your backlash will get tighter, so you will need to take away shims from the ringgear side, and put them on the other side of the carrier, as you bring your pinion out.

do not worry about heel/toe

concentrate on root and topland.

What he said,

JnJ · Jul 13, 2004

ChuckD said:
What he said,

Ya, what the hairless wonder said.

Loose_Nuts_Enterprises · Jul 13, 2004

did you get a low ratio carrier? You didn't say what gears you are replacing. The spacing where the ring gear mounts to the carrier is spaced farther away from the pinion if you have a high ratio carrier. The break is at 3.92 and numerically higher.

HTH, Dan

Beezil · Jul 13, 2004

Barger said:
to the point I'm using the smallest shim I have to set pinion preload.

damn turner, you don't miss a thing......

I sure did.

the quote above points to his pinion being as far out as you can get......is that correct barger? if so, turner probably nailed it.

Barger · Jul 13, 2004

I have the carrier Randy's sent me for the 4.88's
I replaced 3.54's the carriers are different by about the width of the plate.
I've moved the pinion in to the ring gear now just a little to deep I'll post new pics soon. Thanks for the help so far

Rawbrown · Jul 13, 2004

tell me how much total shim you have for the pinion depth? I have to go double check my ###'s but I seem to recall .047" I think... or was it .060". when you take the picture. show me the whole gear. I don't just look at the pattern itself but I look at what kind of pattern is made when the compound is rubbed off on the other teeth. also snap a pic of the pinion if you can. there is a pattern on there that can be read also.

Barger said:
I have the carrier Randy's sent me for the 4.88's
I replaced 3.54's the carriers are different by about the width of the plate.
I've moved the pinion in to the ring gear now just a little to deep I'll post new pics soon. Thanks for the help so far

ChuckD · Jul 13, 2004

Rawbrown said:
tell me how much total shim you have for the pinion depth? I have to go double check my ###'s but I seem to recall .047" I think... or was it .060". when you take the picture. show me the whole gear. I don't just look at the pattern itself but I look at what kind of pattern is made when the compound is rubbed off on the other teeth. also snap a pic of the pinion if you can. there is a pattern on there that can be read also.

I recall you telling me .047 is the base on all axles.

Barger · Jul 13, 2004

this is with the pinion depth shim pack at .050 backlash at .009
The preload is close to right but I have no shims in for preload. How much change can I expect when I swap the set up bearing. I've only set up crush sleeve before.

ChuckD · Jul 13, 2004

Barger said:
this is with the pinion depth shim pack at .050 backlash at .009
The preload is close to right but I have no shims in for preload. How much change can I expect when I swap the set up bearing. I've only set up crush sleeve before.

Looks a lot better, I would remove .003 to the pinion dept and see what it looks like. Do you have a case spreader?

Barger · Jul 13, 2004

No spreader
Just a dead blow hammer and some patience.

ChuckD · Jul 13, 2004

Barger said:
No spreader
Just a dead blow hammer and some patience.

Pack it as tight as you can. When I did mine the first time the Backlash had lossened all up. Then ended up getting another R&P and getting installed with a case spreader.

Barger · Jul 13, 2004

Here the pattern with .047 on pinion and .0075 backlash. Was thinking about tightening up the backlash then adding equal shims to both sides so the carrier is very tight
Let me know what you think of the pattern It looks good but I've only done a few and none were as difficult as this one.

ChuckD · Jul 13, 2004

Barger said:
Here the pattern with .047 on pinion and .0075 backlash. Was thinking about tightening up the backlash then adding equal shims to both sides so the carrier is very tight
Let me know what you think of the pattern It looks good but I've only done a few and none were as difficult as this one.

That is it! What gears did you get? And what was stamped on the end of the pinion? 0 or +, -?

RCP Phx · Jul 13, 2004

Barger said:
The preload is close to right but I have no shims in for preload.

What the heck does that mean?Its either within spec or it isnt!I also recommend at least 50% torque on the pinion nut before checking!

Rawbrown · Jul 13, 2004

just out of curiosity, what is marked on the head of the pinion? sounds like you got a "0". I agree with Chuck and I would personally remove .002-.003" of shim for a .047-.048 pinion depth. then reset your BL to .006-.009 (.007 ideal).

try to add atleast .005" of shim to both sides of the carrier for final assembly. good luck.

Barger · Jul 14, 2004

The gears are from yukon in this case they were spicer gears. From Randy's

There was a 0 stamped in the end.

I took out .003 and the pattern looked good.

The preload is close to right meant that it was out of spec but since I was still using the set up bearings I would mess with it when I got closer to final assembley. Just that it didn't seem like it would take much to get it in spec.
It is now within spec.

Thank you for all your help just another reason I enjoy being a member.
Thanks
Brian

Rawbrown · Jul 14, 2004

even though you have gotten it figured out. as chuck reminded me that oem shim thickness is .047". that "0" indicates that there is zero offset from "spec" which means that .047" what you have now is perfect.
good job and nice pattern.

Barger said:
The gears are from yukon in this case they were spicer gears. From Randy's

There was a 0 stamped in the end.

I took out .003 and the pattern looked good.

The preload is close to right meant that it was out of spec but since I was still using the set up bearings I would mess with it when I got closer to final assembley. Just that it didn't seem like it would take much to get it in spec.
It is now within spec.

Thank you for all your help just another reason I enjoy being a member.
Thanks
Brian

Beezil · Jul 14, 2004

your last pattern is a keeper.

very nice.

I like tighter backlashes for dana axles though.

I take good patterns with spec backlash, but then toighten up a bit.

I don't bother taking patterns after that, because they'll show "pinion too deep"

dana axles love to open up over time.

once again, good pattern!

edit:

for real......this is a textbook good pattern......this pic should be saved in an faq

Gear pattern frustration advice please

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